2 questions
I will not recommend an after market fuel pack/tuner to anyone.
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The PCIII has tables for AFR and ignition timing. The EFI needs only to be directed into providing the correct injector pulse-width applied at the right time. If you satisfy both of these criteria throughout the RPM/TP range you have a good tune. So what does the PCIII lack in the hands of a good tuner?
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From: Baton Rouge, LA
I am inclined to stick with things that will not void my warranty or extended warranty. I've seen with my own eyes what is happening with these after market fuel packs/tuners and why they are causing problems in Harleys.
I will not recommend an after market fuel pack/tuner to anyone.
I will not recommend an after market fuel pack/tuner to anyone.
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Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Baton Rouge, LA
Baloney. Find another dealer, as this one is not trustworthy.
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From: Baton Rouge, LA
Hi. I'm really confused. I have a 2007 Nightrod. It has aftermarket slipons. I went to get my inspection last Saturday and the tech told me I needed to get a PC because the bike was running lean. It has been hard to hold idle when I first turn it on and will cut out if I don't roll on the throttle a little to get it warm. I've been trying to follow these threads, but can't really make any sense of it. Can anyone help?
Your bike should run fine with a muffler upgrade only, but won't operate optimally without a tuner and an AC upgrade.
Last edited by iclick; Jun 8, 2010 at 04:29 PM.
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From: Baton Rouge, LA
1) This is true. Power Commanders and after market fuel packs seem to cause problems at the connecters and end up wearing out the pins. The basic reason is the way they are installed on Harleys. Most are installed under the seat where there is not a lot of room. Then add the weight of a rider on top. I have seen a lot of this coming into our Service Dept. and it is an expensive and timely fix once the pins have been messed up.
2) I highly recommend to my customers, they should consider a SERT if changing the full exhaust and A/C. Why? because the Tuner allows for further adjustments a download will not compensate for.
There are too many suggestions in this section that there is only one tuning solution if you want a "good tune." This is not true and you can accomplish what you want with PCx, one of the flash-based tuners (e.g. TTS, SEST), or ThunderMax. The criteria for purchasing one of these is to compare the feature sets of each and if a dyno-tune is decided upon pick the tuner that the competent human tuner prefers.
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2009
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From: Jackson, Ohio
The PCIII has tables for AFR and ignition timing. The EFI needs only to be directed into providing the correct injector pulse-width applied at the right time. If you satisfy both of these criteria throughout the RPM/TP range you have a good tune. So what does the PCIII lack in the hands of a good tuner?
Let's see,
SEST & TTS both offer
On top of front and rear VE & spark advance (which show total timing) tables are:
Warm-up enrichment
Cranking fuel
IAC warm-up steps
Closed Loop Bias
Accel enrichment
Decel enleanment (what I hear most people complain about with a PC product)
Throttle progressity
Engine displacement size
Injector size
Rpm limit
Knock control
ACR
Temperature management.
That's more than a few more adjustments over the 4 tables PC products allow you to tune.
SEST & TTS have on-line updates to their software which are free. This tells me they are constantly trying to improve their product and then pass along to the consumer. The nice part of this is their hardware is actually able to be updated. How many times has PC offered to update their hardware?
They give you at least 40 maps each to choose from with various builds of the most popular products. Everything from mild to wild.
Both SEST and TTS allow you to watch live data. (not sure about this on PC's programmer)
TTS allows you to auto-tune without having to purchase another $300+ of auto-tune parts.
I do not work for either or sell any of their products. I think people should get the most from their money and then have the flexibility to allow any engine change available without having to upgrade to another product.
I'm sure there are 10's of thousands of happy PC users out there and that is great, just do not act like PC is the answer to everyone's needs for a programmer. IMO, the PC product seems very limited to anyone that goes outside the norm for engine performance.
Last edited by scj; Jun 8, 2010 at 08:42 PM.
Road Warrior
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[QUOTE=iclick;6832394... It would be foolish to remove it (PCIII) and spend more money on anther tuner.....[/QUOTE]
Sorry this part of your statement just sounds judgmental... like BS to me.
Do you have any quantitative proof of this foolishness thing, the pluses and minuses... cost perhaps.. maybe presented in an excel table or even some expert peer review perhaps so even I can understand it?
I've been following these kind of threads in a number of forums and mailing lists for near 20 years and this is the first I've heard that it is foolish to ditch something that isn't working good enough for you for something that works better... Thousands of riders have ditched PCIIIs that were not working well enough for them for much better tuning systems and have not looked back, and some of them seem to be pretty intelligent people not wanting to throw good money/effort after bad. I don't think I've read of anyone going back to the PC after moving on.
Sorry this part of your statement just sounds judgmental... like BS to me.
Do you have any quantitative proof of this foolishness thing, the pluses and minuses... cost perhaps.. maybe presented in an excel table or even some expert peer review perhaps so even I can understand it?
I've been following these kind of threads in a number of forums and mailing lists for near 20 years and this is the first I've heard that it is foolish to ditch something that isn't working good enough for you for something that works better... Thousands of riders have ditched PCIIIs that were not working well enough for them for much better tuning systems and have not looked back, and some of them seem to be pretty intelligent people not wanting to throw good money/effort after bad. I don't think I've read of anyone going back to the PC after moving on.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,258
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From: Jackson, Ohio
With a SEST and TTS, all bikes with O2 sensors are self tuning themselves at steady throttle and idling anyway. You can adjust those parameters to be slightly richer also.
If I am rolling through the gears, I want my bike performing at it's highest level so I adjust it to suit me. Anything over 25% throttle opening in high gear has me cruising close to 90 mph easily. Do you think it needs auto-tuned for 90 mph riding? It's not guessing where to run over 25%, it is operating on properly adjusted tables I set up.
I'll let the stock O2 sensors do their job when I'm cruising (averaging over 40 mpg at 70 mph, 2 up). Never overheating either.
Question for you; does the wide band sensors stay active all the time when not in auto-tune mode?
Last edited by scj; Jun 8, 2010 at 09:27 PM.
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From: El Paso, TX
What if water entered the connectors after the initial install? Can that be corrected? If so, how?