TTS table adj question
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Road Warrior
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,317
Likes: 16
From: Texas
TTS table adj question
I have a tts mastertune for my streetglide and am trying to fine tune it to remove some decel pop.
Ive ran several vtunes and gone through the merge and re program routine, but I still have decel pop around the 2800-3200 range for first three gears. id like to see if I can just edit the table cells for those rpm ranges to see if I can tweak them out by hand rather than running vtunes all day.
Im just not sure what would be a good measure of increment to start with. Any suggestions or pointers to help me out would be appreciated.
I know I have the best tuner right in my back yard, unfortunately, last few months have been disastrous financially for me, so cant afford it at this time.
Now I have one map that worked well with exception of above mentioned range. I backed that up and figured Id run some more vtunes on it, and that seems to have just made things worse. Now I have same decel pop in those ranges and that muffled spitting sound on decel like its trying to pop but cant quite get it out.
So Im gonig back to my original good map and want to hand tweak from there.
Ive ran several vtunes and gone through the merge and re program routine, but I still have decel pop around the 2800-3200 range for first three gears. id like to see if I can just edit the table cells for those rpm ranges to see if I can tweak them out by hand rather than running vtunes all day.
Im just not sure what would be a good measure of increment to start with. Any suggestions or pointers to help me out would be appreciated.
I know I have the best tuner right in my back yard, unfortunately, last few months have been disastrous financially for me, so cant afford it at this time.
Now I have one map that worked well with exception of above mentioned range. I backed that up and figured Id run some more vtunes on it, and that seems to have just made things worse. Now I have same decel pop in those ranges and that muffled spitting sound on decel like its trying to pop but cant quite get it out.
So Im gonig back to my original good map and want to hand tweak from there.
Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 161
Likes: 23
From:
I also have tts,, I havent hat that particular problem but Im thinking to add fuel ( reduce number) to the ''0'' throttle position in the VE front and rear cyl, some were between 2500 and 3500 rpm.. a good place to ask is http://harleytechtalk.org/ in the afr/tuning zone, those guys are sharp and very helpful...
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,543
Likes: 19
From: Ashland Ohio
Playing with VEs will NOT fix this!!!!!
Hand tweaking will NOT work if you are running closed loop. What you wish to do is play with the DE table and see if you can fix it there. DE is Decel Enleanment Table. You will see it is a temp table and usually the last three hotest tables is what you wish to mess with. If it is a loud POP, then you may wish to try to adjust to a smaller number (richer), if it is more like a blubber, then make it leaner (larger number). Initially make moves in like one full point and when it quits, try backing off a bit. This all takes time, and trial and error. But... it IS what tuners do (adjust tables like DE)... their life is easier and quicker is all.
2000 FiveOh is exactly wrong. This is a closed loop bike and if adjust out of your AFR/Lambda that is it set for, you will make the tune highly unstable. (what he suggests works GREAT for bikes like his, though). If DE doesn't get rid of it, then you may wish to try something similar to what 60wt suggests, except with a DBW bike running a Lambda tune, its a bit different from what he says. Try playing with DE and get back with us.
First order of business is to completely check the exhaust for leaks. If you have a leak somewhere, the pops will not tune out.
Best bet is from now on to post TTS questions into the TTS thread at the top of the page, where folks like Russel and Wizard will answer your questions, too.
Hand tweaking will NOT work if you are running closed loop. What you wish to do is play with the DE table and see if you can fix it there. DE is Decel Enleanment Table. You will see it is a temp table and usually the last three hotest tables is what you wish to mess with. If it is a loud POP, then you may wish to try to adjust to a smaller number (richer), if it is more like a blubber, then make it leaner (larger number). Initially make moves in like one full point and when it quits, try backing off a bit. This all takes time, and trial and error. But... it IS what tuners do (adjust tables like DE)... their life is easier and quicker is all.
2000 FiveOh is exactly wrong. This is a closed loop bike and if adjust out of your AFR/Lambda that is it set for, you will make the tune highly unstable. (what he suggests works GREAT for bikes like his, though). If DE doesn't get rid of it, then you may wish to try something similar to what 60wt suggests, except with a DBW bike running a Lambda tune, its a bit different from what he says. Try playing with DE and get back with us.
First order of business is to completely check the exhaust for leaks. If you have a leak somewhere, the pops will not tune out.
Best bet is from now on to post TTS questions into the TTS thread at the top of the page, where folks like Russel and Wizard will answer your questions, too.
Last edited by wurk_truk; Jul 12, 2012 at 09:03 PM.
Tourer
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 315
Likes: 1
Playing with VEs will NOT fix this!!!!!
Hand tweaking will NOT work if you are running closed loop. What you wish to do is play with the DE table and see if you can fix it there. DE is Decel Enleanment Table. You will see it is a temp table and usually the last three hotest tables is what you wish to mess with. If it is a loud POP, then you may wish to try to adjust to a smaller number (richer), if it is more like a blubber, then make it leaner (larger number). Initially make moves in like one full point and when it quits, try backing off a bit. This all takes time, and trial and error. But... it IS what tuners do (adjust tables like DE)... their life is easier and quicker is all.
2000 FiveOh is exactly wrong. This is a closed loop bike and if adjust out of your AFR/Lambda that is it set for, you will make the tune highly unstable. (what he suggests works GREAT for bikes like his, though). If DE doesn't get rid of it, then you may wish to try something similar to what 60wt suggests, except with a DBW bike running a Lambda tune, its a bit different from what he says. Try playing with DE and get back with us.
First order of business is to completely check the exhaust for leaks. If you have a leak somewhere, the pops will not tune out.
Best bet is from now on to post TTS questions into the TTS thread at the top of the page, where folks like Russel and Wizard will answer your questions, too.
Hand tweaking will NOT work if you are running closed loop. What you wish to do is play with the DE table and see if you can fix it there. DE is Decel Enleanment Table. You will see it is a temp table and usually the last three hotest tables is what you wish to mess with. If it is a loud POP, then you may wish to try to adjust to a smaller number (richer), if it is more like a blubber, then make it leaner (larger number). Initially make moves in like one full point and when it quits, try backing off a bit. This all takes time, and trial and error. But... it IS what tuners do (adjust tables like DE)... their life is easier and quicker is all.
2000 FiveOh is exactly wrong. This is a closed loop bike and if adjust out of your AFR/Lambda that is it set for, you will make the tune highly unstable. (what he suggests works GREAT for bikes like his, though). If DE doesn't get rid of it, then you may wish to try something similar to what 60wt suggests, except with a DBW bike running a Lambda tune, its a bit different from what he says. Try playing with DE and get back with us.
First order of business is to completely check the exhaust for leaks. If you have a leak somewhere, the pops will not tune out.
Best bet is from now on to post TTS questions into the TTS thread at the top of the page, where folks like Russel and Wizard will answer your questions, too.
I won't say you're "exactly wrong", you wouldn't buy it anyway being the tuning expert that you are. But...... We're talking about a no load area here. It doesn't matter where the fuel increase or decrease comes from. The advantage of attacking the issue from the AFR side is that it's easy and quick. Besides decel fuel isn't constant. If the bike is in a long decel like going down a long hill decel fuel will kick off at some point. Not to mention that the decel table may not even give enough of a tweak to put out the fire to begin with. Each bike is it's own entity and to say one way is "exactly wrong" and another is the only way, is pure rubbish. It's a no load area and it doesn't matter where the change comes from. One could screw around with the decel table for days and never get rid of a pop, depending on it's severity. But, throw some fuel at it and you have a good chance of knocking down the flame, provided there's no leaks. And even then, there's no guarantee. Some just pop...period.
Maybe in your world WT the decel table is the ONLY RIGHT way to attack the popping issue. Perhaps your bikes pop and you just convince yourself to accept it. A wise old man once told me when I was a young lad to use all the tools in my box. I think that was pretty good advice.
Tourer
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 440
Likes: 0
VE tables are only going to adjust back out if in closed loop.
I'd think that adjusting the decel enleanment would be the way to go.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,543
Likes: 19
From: Ashland Ohio
Now, it surely is NOT the only way to attack the problem at all! Where I was going is this: most dudes, anymore, run closed loop on their bikes... and if this is an open loop tune, then YOU described the fix easily.
But with closed loop, I am all bout keeping the ECM 'Happy" as possible.
I think most of idle should be open loop, and I also do NOT close loop up to the 80kpa thing either.
But... Once you massage the AFR tables to kill decel pop, the what you're really doing is jumping back and forth between closed and open multiple times. I feel doing THAT is a set up for big problems with the AFVs, etc, and the tune will eventually take a dump.
I was just 'assuming' that the OP would like to keep the bike closed loop, and jumping back and forth with the AFR tables will make the tune unstable.
Now... to the OP... there is NOTHING wrong with having your bike be a open loop tune. I just feel that with a basic Stage 1, closed loop would/could work to your advantage.
Lastly, what I wanted from the OP is to TRY the DE tables to see what happens with the pop. It IS the easiest tool in the box. If that doesn't work, or work completely, we may try a bit of timing to suck the flame front back into the cylinder.
And... this time around, I noticed it is a 2010 Lambda bike. SO playing with teeny bits of AFR will still keep it in closed loop, but not much, either.
But with closed loop, I am all bout keeping the ECM 'Happy" as possible.
I think most of idle should be open loop, and I also do NOT close loop up to the 80kpa thing either.
But... Once you massage the AFR tables to kill decel pop, the what you're really doing is jumping back and forth between closed and open multiple times. I feel doing THAT is a set up for big problems with the AFVs, etc, and the tune will eventually take a dump.
I was just 'assuming' that the OP would like to keep the bike closed loop, and jumping back and forth with the AFR tables will make the tune unstable.
Now... to the OP... there is NOTHING wrong with having your bike be a open loop tune. I just feel that with a basic Stage 1, closed loop would/could work to your advantage.
Lastly, what I wanted from the OP is to TRY the DE tables to see what happens with the pop. It IS the easiest tool in the box. If that doesn't work, or work completely, we may try a bit of timing to suck the flame front back into the cylinder.
And... this time around, I noticed it is a 2010 Lambda bike. SO playing with teeny bits of AFR will still keep it in closed loop, but not much, either.
Last edited by wurk_truk; Jul 22, 2012 at 10:54 PM.
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Tourer
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 315
Likes: 1
Now, it surely is NOT the only way to attack the problem at all! Where I was going is this: most dudes, anymore, run closed loop on their bikes... and if this is an open loop tune, then YOU described the fix easily.
But with closed loop, I am all bout keeping the ECM 'Happy" as possible.
I think most of idle should be open loop, and I also do NOT close loop up to the 80kpa thing either.
But... Once you massage the AFR tables to kill decel pop, the what you're really doing is jumping back and forth between closed and open multiple times. I feel doing THAT is a set up for big problems with the AFVs, etc, and the tune will eventually take a dump.
I was just 'assuming' that the OP would like to keep the bike closed loop, and jumping back and forth with the AFR tables will make the tune unstable.
Now... to the OP... there is NOTHING wrong with having your bike be a open loop tune. I just feel that with a basic Stage 1, closed loop would/could work to your advantage.
Lastly, what I wanted from the OP is to TRY the DE tables to see what happens with the pop. It IS the easiest tool in the box. If that doesn't work, or work completely, we may try a bit of timing to suck the flame front back into the cylinder.
And... this time around, I noticed it is a 2010 Lambda bike. SO playing with teeny bits of AFR will still keep it in closed loop, but not much, either.
But with closed loop, I am all bout keeping the ECM 'Happy" as possible.
I think most of idle should be open loop, and I also do NOT close loop up to the 80kpa thing either.
But... Once you massage the AFR tables to kill decel pop, the what you're really doing is jumping back and forth between closed and open multiple times. I feel doing THAT is a set up for big problems with the AFVs, etc, and the tune will eventually take a dump.
I was just 'assuming' that the OP would like to keep the bike closed loop, and jumping back and forth with the AFR tables will make the tune unstable.
Now... to the OP... there is NOTHING wrong with having your bike be a open loop tune. I just feel that with a basic Stage 1, closed loop would/could work to your advantage.
Lastly, what I wanted from the OP is to TRY the DE tables to see what happens with the pop. It IS the easiest tool in the box. If that doesn't work, or work completely, we may try a bit of timing to suck the flame front back into the cylinder.
And... this time around, I noticed it is a 2010 Lambda bike. SO playing with teeny bits of AFR will still keep it in closed loop, but not much, either.
We aren't talking about mixing open and closed loop throughout the RIDING cells, although there's nothing wrong with that either. What we are talking about is a no-load area. If the OP wants to run closed loop from idle out to 80 fine. But there is nothing wrong with going open loop in the no-load decel areas, and even idle if he so chooses.
So, maybe you should slow down BEFORE you start calling folks out as being "exactly wrong".
Thread Starter
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Road Warrior
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,317
Likes: 16
From: Texas
Sorry for the long delay guys. was away on business and didnt have much time to try out what ya suggested.
I just did a few quick test runs adjusting the decel enleanment like suggested. I may have to run some more tests and adjust as I go along because Im still not sure. When decreasing the last three numbers by one decrement, I didnt notice the pop on shift as much, but it does seem to gurgle more when totally backing off throttle.
Original problem was she popped at time of shift in first two to two gears. higher gears she runs great.
I dont think I have any exhaust leaks as she would pop throughout all gears when shifting right?
Ill have a better summary when I ride into work tomorrow. Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions.
and I think its closed loop system. I have lambda tables.
I just did a few quick test runs adjusting the decel enleanment like suggested. I may have to run some more tests and adjust as I go along because Im still not sure. When decreasing the last three numbers by one decrement, I didnt notice the pop on shift as much, but it does seem to gurgle more when totally backing off throttle.
Original problem was she popped at time of shift in first two to two gears. higher gears she runs great.
I dont think I have any exhaust leaks as she would pop throughout all gears when shifting right?
Ill have a better summary when I ride into work tomorrow. Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions.
and I think its closed loop system. I have lambda tables.