Choke closing
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Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 26
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From: Northeast PA
Choke closing
New to the forum but have been reading the posts for quite a while. A lot of excellent information.
I have a 76 xlch. Bought it back in January. (Not my first ironhead but it has been a long time since the last one.) I have ridden it around some, not a lot, less than 100 miles so far. This past weekend while riding it started to run rough for no apparent reson. After playing with it for a while I noticedthecarboratorseemed to be "sucking" the choke closed. (At least half way.) I do not have a choke cable on it.It has a stock Bendix (Zeinith) carb on it. Why is it doing this and what could have started it?
Thanks.
I have a 76 xlch. Bought it back in January. (Not my first ironhead but it has been a long time since the last one.) I have ridden it around some, not a lot, less than 100 miles so far. This past weekend while riding it started to run rough for no apparent reson. After playing with it for a while I noticedthecarboratorseemed to be "sucking" the choke closed. (At least half way.) I do not have a choke cable on it.It has a stock Bendix (Zeinith) carb on it. Why is it doing this and what could have started it?
Thanks.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,035
Likes: 17
From: Houston Texas
RE: Choke closing
My 1st guess is that the spring and detent ball is either missing or broken. This keeps tension on the choke butterfly lever. I have attached my marked up pic to tell you where things are on a Bendix (Zenith) Carb...........pg
edit note: That did not work. I will try again.
[IMG]local://upfiles/8331/9DC8C07CB60D4314A06CC0669BA364D9.jpg[/IMG]
edit note: That did not work. I will try again.
[IMG]local://upfiles/8331/9DC8C07CB60D4314A06CC0669BA364D9.jpg[/IMG]
Cruiser
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 207
Likes: 1
RE: Choke closing
Most of the older bendex carbs have had the choke cable removed, as the carb. gets older the choke detent assm. wears out and will not hold open on a backfire, I always remove the choke butterfly, as the chokewas never used anyway.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,035
Likes: 17
From: Houston Texas
RE: Choke closing
Here is the pic I was trying to add. As far as Crampfan saying he never uses a choke......well, good for him I guess. If my old irony didn't have a choke, I would not be able to get it started when cold. I mean...never!.........pg
[IMG]local://upfiles/8331/F5BD9161F97A4916B514296E5D0A04E6.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/8331/F5BD9161F97A4916B514296E5D0A04E6.jpg[/IMG]
Thread Starter
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Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: Northeast PA
RE: Choke closing
I also thought that maybe it was the spring or ball for the detent. But it is all there and seems to be working. There is tension on the ball against thedetent anyway. I have not taken it apart yet. It only "sucks" the choke butterfly closed at a round 3000 rpm or when I crack the throttle at a higher rpm. Other than that it holds fine. Maybe the spring has weakened over time? Any more ideas out there?
I wish I could just remove it all together. But I live in Northeast PA. Just wont start on those cold mornings without it being choked. Thanks just the same for the suggestion.
I wish I could just remove it all together. But I live in Northeast PA. Just wont start on those cold mornings without it being choked. Thanks just the same for the suggestion.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,035
Likes: 17
From: Houston Texas
RE: Choke closing
OK, it sounds like you need to put some tension on the choke lever. When you are turning 3000 rpms the engine is really sucking strong. I can see where the choke butterfly might happen to bounce downward just a bit and be caught by the suction.
Since you said you had no choke cable, I think putting one on might give you just the resistance you need. I rigged mine up with a brass **** screwed onto the threaded end of an old spoke. There is enough sliding resistance where the choke will never close unless I want it to.
I'll post the pic again.........pg
[IMG]local://upfiles/8331/184D213F50A54CDCAE8FA7AB062F2621.jpg[/IMG]
Since you said you had no choke cable, I think putting one on might give you just the resistance you need. I rigged mine up with a brass **** screwed onto the threaded end of an old spoke. There is enough sliding resistance where the choke will never close unless I want it to.
I'll post the pic again.........pg
[IMG]local://upfiles/8331/184D213F50A54CDCAE8FA7AB062F2621.jpg[/IMG]
Thread Starter
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Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: Northeast PA
RE: Choke closing
Thanks. You have pretty much confirmed what I thought I was going to have to do. I would prefer to avoid adding a choke cable. Maybe I"ll try something similar to your set up if you don't mind. I have seen your posts before, regarding your choke rigg/carb. Although I have to say, you either have a lot of guts to drill and tap the carb body to install that allen bolt. (At least that's what it looks like you did.) Either that, or you are a machinist, that knows what he is doing. Do you ever find it awkward getting to the ****?
Ifthere are any sugestions out there, about a choke set up,I am always willing to listen.
Well, thanks for the help, (both of you). I am sure I will have more questions. I am having alot of fun with this bike. Came acrossed it by dumb luck. Really wasn't looking for it. Some times you just get lucky I guess.
Thanks again.
Ifthere are any sugestions out there, about a choke set up,I am always willing to listen.
Well, thanks for the help, (both of you). I am sure I will have more questions. I am having alot of fun with this bike. Came acrossed it by dumb luck. Really wasn't looking for it. Some times you just get lucky I guess.
Thanks again.
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,035
Likes: 17
From: Houston Texas
RE: Choke closing
Badger....
No, I am not a machinist by any means but I like to think I know what I'm doing. Well most of the time anyway. The choke **** is pulled to the left to set the choke to the on position.
The **** can be reached easily, but is difficult to push to the left with only my left two fingers. So what I do is slip a finger of my right hand under the lever at the carb end to assist the left fingers and this works smooth and without effort. To take the choke off requires only 1 left finger to pull it to the right, and that is without any effort as well.
When I did the set up I looked at several ways to do this. I did not want a big honk'in cable on the bike like it had before, so I thought of how I might lighten things up a bit. What I did is perfect for me. Others may have (or want) to do it another way.
If you decide to do as I, then you will need to do the following.
First get yourself an allen head screw and 1 locknut. The reason I chose this screw is because:
It has a large head
it has a hole in the middle, so I do not have to drill out a bunch of metal.
I chose to use an 8-32x1/2 inch.
You need to drill the carb body with the proper size drill for tapping and then tap the hole. I used a starter tap and finished the hole with a bottom tap. That way you have threads all the way to the bottom.
Cut your screw (if needed) so that it is a tad shorter than the depth of your tapped hole.
Put the screw with a locknut on it into the hole and snug it down. Careful here, you are working in zinc metal. Tighten the locknut.
Now you are ready to drill your hole for the spoke rod to go thru. Don't drill it before because it will not be where you want to drill it. Just eyeball the path the spoke will take in a straight line and drill it there. You can mark the spot and then remove the screw and locknut to drill it on a bench as a practical matter. Just have your required angle in mind and marked is all.
I simply drilled a hole in the brass **** that would be a force fit for the nipple to go into. Then the nipple was pressed into the ****.
The threaded end of the spoke goes into the **** of course. The other end of the spoke rod gets an "S" bend put into it. Feed your as yet unbent rod thru the allen head to the choke lever. Mark where you want to put the S bend at.
You will have to install the rod S bend first into the choke lever, then get it thru the allen head. This will require you to gently bend the spoke and then restraighten it after it is thru the allen head. Screw on your **** and you're done.
That is a very detailed story of what I did, and the problems faced. I thought about leaving the spoke longer at first, but the problem of getting it thru the allen head was too complicated. I could have made a barrel with a set screw for the choke lever end though, instead of using an S bend in the spoke. Then the install would have just slid thru the allen and into the barrel.
There are many ways to do any one thing. You just need to decide what is right for you. But, as you know....you are going to need a choke. You need it to go on when you choose and remain off while you ride. So go get 'em and let us know how it goes............pg
[IMG]local://upfiles/8331/EF258E7D66CB4311A614A5A9C5A9DDFF.jpg[/IMG]
No, I am not a machinist by any means but I like to think I know what I'm doing. Well most of the time anyway. The choke **** is pulled to the left to set the choke to the on position.
The **** can be reached easily, but is difficult to push to the left with only my left two fingers. So what I do is slip a finger of my right hand under the lever at the carb end to assist the left fingers and this works smooth and without effort. To take the choke off requires only 1 left finger to pull it to the right, and that is without any effort as well.
When I did the set up I looked at several ways to do this. I did not want a big honk'in cable on the bike like it had before, so I thought of how I might lighten things up a bit. What I did is perfect for me. Others may have (or want) to do it another way.
If you decide to do as I, then you will need to do the following.
First get yourself an allen head screw and 1 locknut. The reason I chose this screw is because:
It has a large head
it has a hole in the middle, so I do not have to drill out a bunch of metal.
I chose to use an 8-32x1/2 inch.
You need to drill the carb body with the proper size drill for tapping and then tap the hole. I used a starter tap and finished the hole with a bottom tap. That way you have threads all the way to the bottom.
Cut your screw (if needed) so that it is a tad shorter than the depth of your tapped hole.
Put the screw with a locknut on it into the hole and snug it down. Careful here, you are working in zinc metal. Tighten the locknut.
Now you are ready to drill your hole for the spoke rod to go thru. Don't drill it before because it will not be where you want to drill it. Just eyeball the path the spoke will take in a straight line and drill it there. You can mark the spot and then remove the screw and locknut to drill it on a bench as a practical matter. Just have your required angle in mind and marked is all.
I simply drilled a hole in the brass **** that would be a force fit for the nipple to go into. Then the nipple was pressed into the ****.
The threaded end of the spoke goes into the **** of course. The other end of the spoke rod gets an "S" bend put into it. Feed your as yet unbent rod thru the allen head to the choke lever. Mark where you want to put the S bend at.
You will have to install the rod S bend first into the choke lever, then get it thru the allen head. This will require you to gently bend the spoke and then restraighten it after it is thru the allen head. Screw on your **** and you're done.
That is a very detailed story of what I did, and the problems faced. I thought about leaving the spoke longer at first, but the problem of getting it thru the allen head was too complicated. I could have made a barrel with a set screw for the choke lever end though, instead of using an S bend in the spoke. Then the install would have just slid thru the allen and into the barrel.
There are many ways to do any one thing. You just need to decide what is right for you. But, as you know....you are going to need a choke. You need it to go on when you choose and remain off while you ride. So go get 'em and let us know how it goes............pg
[IMG]local://upfiles/8331/EF258E7D66CB4311A614A5A9C5A9DDFF.jpg[/IMG]
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Thread Starter
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Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: Northeast PA
RE: Choke closing
Pinion, thanks for the instructions. I may borrow some of your set up. I have already been working it through, in my head, what I might try. Probably a cobination of both. I am going to start on it this weekend. I will be sure to let you know what I come up with and what works.
Oldtimer,I may end up getting an s&s if I screw this up! But I have to try. Much less expensive fabricating this stuff myself. Plus I like to work on things like this anyway.
Oldtimer,I may end up getting an s&s if I screw this up! But I have to try. Much less expensive fabricating this stuff myself. Plus I like to work on things like this anyway.