Hardtail conversion HELP!!!
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,035
Likes: 17
From: Houston Texas
Piniongear, after reading your reply, it sounds like I have two problems <great info BTW, thanks). The first being there before I do the hardtail conversion (hub/tire), the second would be going to a wider tail. The relationship between the hub and tire I now understand <you are the man!>. I think the part that I still don't know is where the spacers go?? Please double check me though. Once I get the wheel/hub aligned, I should align the two sprockets then add spacers (on the axle) between the rear sprocket and the tail to take up the slack. On the left side, where do I put spacers? Since the rotor needs to be aligned with the caliper, do I add a spacer between the rotor and the hub?? I am confused as h*ll. Does anyone have a picture?? I am researching axle kits but just don't know what I am looking for. I know which items need to be aligned, I just dont know the right way, hate asking the newbie questions but would also hate to go down the road only to find my back tire stayed at the red light 
Thanks!
Thanks!Short answer to your question about spacers is.....Yes.
Here is where it may get interesting. You are describing having 2 fixed points on your wheel, the sprocket on one side and the brake rotor on the other side.
Both of these points are fixed. so that is where you start.
First is your drive sprocket location.
Put the rear wheel on the axle, sitting in the frame.
Line up the rear sprocket with the drive sprocket.
Measure the distance from the face of the inner race of the right side wheel bearing to the inside face of the swing arm (or rigid frame). This is how long the right side spacer must be.
Without moving the wheel, go to the left side and measure from the inner race of the left side wheel bearing inner to the inside face of the frame. This is how long the left side spacer must be.
Fabricate the spacers and install them. The wheel is now set.
Remaining is that last fixed point.......the rotor (or caliper, depending on how you look at the situation)
Here is where you have to make a choice between.....
Move the rotor? or,
Move the caliper?
Move both caliper and rotor?
Here is the only guidance I can offer on that.....
The rotor bolts are most surely 'strength 8' bolts. These bolts take a lot of pressure put on them, so I recommend not moving the rotor too far away from where it presently sits against the hub.
The real question is how far a distance is it between the rotor and caliper fitting together? If it is only, say.... a half inch, then I would just install spacing washers behind the rotor and buy strength 8 bolts ˝ inch longer and rebolt the rotor on.
If the distance is greater than ˝ inch, then I think I would put some spacers behind the caliper mounts as well to move the caliper inward.
Obviously I do not know the details and dimensions of what your situation is, but this is the manner I would use to make the brake fit up. Always use the gold colored strength 8 bolts for brake items.
The spacers should seat against the bearing inner races of course, because tightening the axle down will lock everything together along the axle.
Another point regarding the axle to frame fit.......
If your frame has rectangular slots where the axle goes through it (like the original frame) then you will need a couple of washers similar to the originals.
Perhaps you can use the originals. These washers I am talking about will be round with a hole that the axle slides through. One one side of each washer has a flat milled off to the same dimension as the rectangular slot in the frame. This milled flat sits in the frame slot........pg
Thread Starter
|
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 31
Likes: 2
Hog4U - I bought this tail from American Classic Motors off of Ebay "V-Twin Manufacturing" part number is "51-0982
FITS 79-81 DISC APPLICATIONS"
PG - I feel a lot better after hearing your suggestions. I found 3/4" axles on EBay that will fit (length). I will go ahead and look for a wider tire/wheel combo as well. From all of my searchs on here, it looks like a 150-180 should work without MAJOR mods. I think the stock 130 will look bad inside of this tail too. It sounds like the next step in this mod is to get a wheel on an axle, in the tail and see exactly what I am dealing with.
One last question..... until the next one
The rectangle slot in the axle is 3/4" <tall> and 2 1/8" slotted <long>. Do I still need a milled washer? The 3/4" axle fits snug and slides forward and backward <chain tension> but not up and down. The HD parts book doesn't show anything in particular except washers on the outside of the tail, but then again, it's a different tail.
I appreciate everyone's help with this. I am POSITIVE I am going to need more help but now I have a starting point and a much better understanding of the whole thing, THANKS!!!!
FITS 79-81 DISC APPLICATIONS"
PG - I feel a lot better after hearing your suggestions. I found 3/4" axles on EBay that will fit (length). I will go ahead and look for a wider tire/wheel combo as well. From all of my searchs on here, it looks like a 150-180 should work without MAJOR mods. I think the stock 130 will look bad inside of this tail too. It sounds like the next step in this mod is to get a wheel on an axle, in the tail and see exactly what I am dealing with.
One last question..... until the next one
The rectangle slot in the axle is 3/4" <tall> and 2 1/8" slotted <long>. Do I still need a milled washer? The 3/4" axle fits snug and slides forward and backward <chain tension> but not up and down. The HD parts book doesn't show anything in particular except washers on the outside of the tail, but then again, it's a different tail.I appreciate everyone's help with this. I am POSITIVE I am going to need more help but now I have a starting point and a much better understanding of the whole thing, THANKS!!!!
Last edited by dtimekw; Oct 8, 2008 at 05:31 PM.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,035
Likes: 17
From: Houston Texas
dtimekw.....
If the frame slot is ž inch high and the axle is also ž inch diameter, then no......you do not need the milled washer. In fact it will not fit at all.
If the slot were wider than ž inch though, you would need one.
Here's a poor freehand sketch of what a milled washer would look like:
With a standard Harley axle, the headbolt end of the axle has a milled finish that sits into the slot on a swing arm frame, looking similar to the washer except for the hex head of the axle.
The threaded end of the axle is where a milled washer would be used. This matches both ends of the axle's engagement into the frame. Obviously on an aftermarket frame whose slot dimension matches the diameter of the axle, the milled end nor washer can be used.
If the tire you want to use will fit between the frame (and the fender bolts) there will be no problem using that tire/wheel.
The rim can be positioned anywhere you want to put it, but dead center of the frame to match dead center of the front wheel is best. Always try to center your rim over the mass that encloses the axle. This applies to both front and back wheels.........pg
If the frame slot is ž inch high and the axle is also ž inch diameter, then no......you do not need the milled washer. In fact it will not fit at all.
If the slot were wider than ž inch though, you would need one.
Here's a poor freehand sketch of what a milled washer would look like:
With a standard Harley axle, the headbolt end of the axle has a milled finish that sits into the slot on a swing arm frame, looking similar to the washer except for the hex head of the axle.
The threaded end of the axle is where a milled washer would be used. This matches both ends of the axle's engagement into the frame. Obviously on an aftermarket frame whose slot dimension matches the diameter of the axle, the milled end nor washer can be used.
If the tire you want to use will fit between the frame (and the fender bolts) there will be no problem using that tire/wheel.
The rim can be positioned anywhere you want to put it, but dead center of the frame to match dead center of the front wheel is best. Always try to center your rim over the mass that encloses the axle. This applies to both front and back wheels.........pg
Thread Starter
|
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 31
Likes: 2
PG - I can't thank you enough for the help. I truly appreciate the time you've taken to explain in great detail. This is my first big mod to a bike and I want to make sure I do things right. I'll keep things posted as I progress. Thanks again!
Troy
Troy
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,035
Likes: 17
From: Houston Texas
No problem at all, we are all more than glad to help out. That's what the ironhead forum is all about.
Be sure to keep us posted on the progress..........pg
Thread Starter
|
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 31
Likes: 2
UPDATE! Wow, what a project. I have cut off the old section of frame and have the new tail tacked on. It took two days just to cut, tack, straighten and get perfectly level. I have the rear wheel mocked up on the axle without spacers right now. It looks like I'll need 2 equal spacers (about 2 inches). The 130 tire doesn't look that bad in the new tail. I don't want to take on too much as a newbie 
Next on the list is to measure and put spacers on either side of the hub. I should be able to center the hub since I didn't change wheel size or drive offset, right?
I love the hardtail look and can't wait to get it back on the road. It has been a lot of work so far (a lot more to go too). If anyone is thinking about doing this mod, go for it. I have learned so much.
Thanks to all who have helped out. I'll keep the updates coming!
Next on the list is to measure and put spacers on either side of the hub. I should be able to center the hub since I didn't change wheel size or drive offset, right?I love the hardtail look and can't wait to get it back on the road. It has been a lot of work so far (a lot more to go too). If anyone is thinking about doing this mod, go for it. I have learned so much.
Thanks to all who have helped out. I'll keep the updates coming!
Thread Starter
|
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 31
Likes: 2
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Southpaw Super Glide: A Left-Hand-Drive 1979 Harley FXE Built to Fit the Rider
Verdad Gallardo
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,035
Likes: 17
From: Houston Texas
I am unable to explain here how you post pics, but Terry (Administrator) has listed the simple instructions and other members may be able to explain it better than me.
Basically, you join up with Shutterbug (or some such similar place) and store any pics that you take on their site. It is 100% free and there is no cost to join it.
When you post a reply here on the forum and want to include pic(s), just go to Shutterbug, find the pic and 'copy' it, then come back to the forum just 'paste' it to the reply.
Can someone help me out here with a better explanation of how to post a photo?...........pg
Basically, you join up with Shutterbug (or some such similar place) and store any pics that you take on their site. It is 100% free and there is no cost to join it.
When you post a reply here on the forum and want to include pic(s), just go to Shutterbug, find the pic and 'copy' it, then come back to the forum just 'paste' it to the reply.
Can someone help me out here with a better explanation of how to post a photo?...........pg
