LiveWire LiveWire Price
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,310
Likes: 1,079
So heat wave how long you been riding Harleys? They have always been overpriced, underpowered and have had reliability issues against any Asian offering. Todays bikes are the best ever. Harley sells more motorcycles per quarter in the US than BMW does all year. Harley sells almost as many motorcycles per quarter in the US than BMW does all year on their home turf. This includes all motorcycle genres, so yours is not really an apples to apples comparison is it? I know you, as much as my brother, have an "axe to grind" against the motor company due to the sumping issue, but lets be honest here. Honda competes in all motorcycle genres. The end of the world is not near...
The result is HD has watched their market share decline and their sales erode. And NOW their strategy is to go after the small bike market segment these manufacturers have owned for 50 years??? I don't think so. They will be eaten alive by far more powerful companies with far greater experience, better products, deeper budgets and lower costs.
Companies MUST think and act globally or they will not be around long in today's market. (Why do you think FIAT owns the former Chrysler Corporation?) Trying to compare US sales as a scorecard is a losers game which is exactly why HD sales are down 6 years in a row. I have no axe to grind. I've been an executive in a Fortune 50 company and I can tell you that what I see in HD's strategy and the quality of their products today will not end well on the current path. I actually hope I'm very wrong, but I just don't believe the current company leadership and strategies will return this company to growth.
I have followed HD's Financials for over 15 years and the current storyline will not end well without a serious course correction.... and $30k ebikes and Adventure Bikes is definitely NOT the course correction HD needs to return to growth.
Last edited by Heatwave; Mar 4, 2019 at 08:10 PM.
Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 11,472
Likes: 3,574
From: Idaho
...Harley will NEVER succeed trying to outdo Honda or Kawasaki or BMW at the small bike game. If they are "betting the farm on small bikes", they are about to lose the farm. The other bike makers have a 50 year headstart on the design and reliability of smaller bikes and understanding the recipe, and more importantly the profitability, of "fun" in that segment.. Harley already tried that game with Buell... and lost ...badly.
Touring bikes are the only segment of their portfolio that has kept the company afloat and they have actually maintained sales in Touring while the rest of the HD lineup has continued to slide...
Touring bikes are the only segment of their portfolio that has kept the company afloat and they have actually maintained sales in Touring while the rest of the HD lineup has continued to slide...
Honda sold 20,000,000 units worldwide last year. That includes the world-class Goldwing touring bike, the world-class Africa Twin adv bike, the world-class CBR1000RR retina-searing superbike, multiple other sportbikes, multiple other dirt bikes, and...
...19,000,000 entry level motorcycles, small motorcycles, entry level 300cc sportbikes, inexpensive motorcycles, starter motorcycles, and scooters.
They are f***ing cheating, obviously, by arrogantly designing and selling EXACTLY what 19,000,000 buyers around the world wanted. Harley has zero chance of competing in this market in the US, and about a .00097% chance of competing worldwide.
Harley owns the big, heavy, expensive, retro-vintage-'50's "Harley 74" market. The only way Harley is going to survive is to make the entry into that retro-vintage-'50's vibe market less expensive for newer, younger, potential Harley buyers, because those are the only Harleys most people want.
Won't be easy.
As far as competing in the electric motorcycle market, they're already dead. Instead of coming out with an electric motorcycle, they came out with an electric Harley-Davidson, while there are multiple competitors releasing actual electric motorcycles that are superior to the LiveWire in every respect, including price.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 4,607
Likes: 3,312
From: Virginia
AND just like that Harley updates the range specs. Now 140 miles in town, and 88 miles at a constant 70 MPH.
https://www.webbikeworld.com/harley-...-the-livewire/
https://www.webbikeworld.com/harley-...-the-livewire/
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,310
Likes: 1,079
AND just like that Harley updates the range specs. Now 140 miles in town, and 88 miles at a constant 70 MPH.
https://www.webbikeworld.com/harley-...-the-livewire/
https://www.webbikeworld.com/harley-...-the-livewire/
i suspect they will struggle to sell a thousand units at $30k ea even with the modest range increase.
Tourer
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 444
Likes: 93
From: xx
Lol, so now you can go 44 miles away from home instead of only 35 miles from home before you need to turn around to head back home for a charge. I’m shocked they didn’t raise the price for the nominal range increase. I don’t see anywhere that they changed the batteries or did they just change their calculations?
i suspect they will struggle to sell a thousand units at $30k ea even with the modest range increase.
i suspect they will struggle to sell a thousand units at $30k ea even with the modest range increase.
The one positive I see is the dealer attitude. The three dealers I've talked about are really excited about it, and looks like they are ready to welcome the non-traditional buyers. This is in start contrast to what happened when V-Rod came out. I've had two of them, bought new, and the apathy or downright hostile dealer behavior was really off-putting.The one positive I see is the dealer attitude. The three dealers I've talked about are really excited about it, and looks like they are ready to welcome the non-traditional buyers. This is in start contrast to what happened when V-Rod came out. I've had two of them, bought new, and the apathy or downright hostile dealer behavior was really off-putting.
Tourer
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 444
Likes: 93
From: xx
Price is another matter...
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,310
Likes: 1,079
I don't think they expect to sell many of them. The idea here is for the LiveWire to be the halo bike, like the Vette. That will bring a new and different crowd into the dealership that might buy one of the many cheaper models that they will have.
The one positive I see is the dealer attitude. The three dealers I've talked about are really excited about it, and looks like they are ready to welcome the non-traditional buyers. This is in start contrast to what happened when V-Rod came out. I've had two of them, bought new, and the apathy or downright hostile dealer behavior was really off-putting.The one positive I see is the dealer attitude. The three dealers I've talked about are really excited about it, and looks like they are ready to welcome the non-traditional buyers. This is in start contrast to what happened when V-Rod came out. I've had two of them, bought new, and the apathy or downright hostile dealer behavior was really off-putting.
The one positive I see is the dealer attitude. The three dealers I've talked about are really excited about it, and looks like they are ready to welcome the non-traditional buyers. This is in start contrast to what happened when V-Rod came out. I've had two of them, bought new, and the apathy or downright hostile dealer behavior was really off-putting.The one positive I see is the dealer attitude. The three dealers I've talked about are really excited about it, and looks like they are ready to welcome the non-traditional buyers. This is in start contrast to what happened when V-Rod came out. I've had two of them, bought new, and the apathy or downright hostile dealer behavior was really off-putting.
Last edited by Heatwave; Mar 5, 2019 at 02:22 PM.
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Advanced
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 62
Likes: 16
From: Tampa
For the intended function, if it is real 140 miles, I don't think it's bad. I'm not sure that I've ever owned a sport bike that would go past 150 miles, most of them struggled to get past 100 if ridden hard. LW is not a touring/long-distance bike.
Price is another matter...
Price is another matter...
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,310
Likes: 1,079
For the intended function, if it is real 140 miles, I don't think it's bad. I'm not sure that I've ever owned a sport bike that would go past 150 miles, most of them struggled to get past 100 if ridden hard. LW is not a touring/long-distance bike.
Price is another matter...
Price is another matter...