m8 Sumping
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,382
Likes: 404
From: Illinois
The cases are getting pressurized and not venting adequately especially as the displacement increases. Do some searches, talk with some people designing solutions. Pressurized case = pump cavitation, leading to sumping. The seal was designed to help, but has shown not to be curative.
The itsy bitsy teeny weeny plastic breathers in the heads are not helping matters. The smallest breathers on the largest displacement engines they ever made.
Don't expect the dealer monkeys to fix it. Look elsewhere.
The itsy bitsy teeny weeny plastic breathers in the heads are not helping matters. The smallest breathers on the largest displacement engines they ever made.
Don't expect the dealer monkeys to fix it. Look elsewhere.
Last edited by VDeuce; Apr 16, 2019 at 03:34 PM.
Road Captain
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 626
Likes: 109
From: New York
Like many others, it happened to my Stage 4 2018 Road Glide Special as well. I chose to take advantage of my warranty and have them rebuild up to a 124 using aftermarket parts including new Feuling Rocker Arm Shafts with Feuling race Pump and Cam Plate. So far, so good after a 1000 miles. But to be honest, I still dont have the confidence riding this bike as I do my 2014 Street Glide.
Right now, I know of 6 bikes sitting at one of my local dealerships with Sumping issues. All CVOs. Two of the owners are brothers in my MC. Both bikes are Stock. Ones a 17 114 and the others an 18 117. Additionally, I have another Brother out in Houston that just got a 2019 stage 3 117 RGS (All Harley build) and his bike sumped as well. In each case, they were told that their bikes were fine.... WTF??? Theyre not fine when youre rolling down the highway and lose power and your bike starts engine breaking, smoking and backfiring.
In each case, it seems the new thing with the MOCO is that they dont want to follow the SB1450. I guess thats costing them too much money too. At what point will Harley follow suit like dare I say, Indian/Polaris and truly Address this. Indian stopped selling their 116 Kit, called in vendors like Carrillo and fixed the issue. Then, they recalled the bikes. Harley has the most loyal customer base in the game. It would be nice to see some authentic good will in return. Even the fanboys should empathize with that!
I guarantee the numbers of folks experiencing sumping is far greater than what we as customers will ever know. Most people have no clue what sumping is and what it feels like. Most have no knowledge of SB1450. The MOCO needs to step up and stop hiding behind aftermarket mufflers and tuners, which they know damn well has nothing to do with whats happening with these bikes.
Right now, I know of 6 bikes sitting at one of my local dealerships with Sumping issues. All CVOs. Two of the owners are brothers in my MC. Both bikes are Stock. Ones a 17 114 and the others an 18 117. Additionally, I have another Brother out in Houston that just got a 2019 stage 3 117 RGS (All Harley build) and his bike sumped as well. In each case, they were told that their bikes were fine.... WTF??? Theyre not fine when youre rolling down the highway and lose power and your bike starts engine breaking, smoking and backfiring.
In each case, it seems the new thing with the MOCO is that they dont want to follow the SB1450. I guess thats costing them too much money too. At what point will Harley follow suit like dare I say, Indian/Polaris and truly Address this. Indian stopped selling their 116 Kit, called in vendors like Carrillo and fixed the issue. Then, they recalled the bikes. Harley has the most loyal customer base in the game. It would be nice to see some authentic good will in return. Even the fanboys should empathize with that!
I guarantee the numbers of folks experiencing sumping is far greater than what we as customers will ever know. Most people have no clue what sumping is and what it feels like. Most have no knowledge of SB1450. The MOCO needs to step up and stop hiding behind aftermarket mufflers and tuners, which they know damn well has nothing to do with whats happening with these bikes.
Last edited by Vision; Apr 21, 2019 at 08:44 AM.
Tourer
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 349
Likes: 83
From: Florida
Like many others, it happened to my Stage 4 2018 Road Glide Special as well. I chose to take advantage of my warranty and have them rebuild up to a 124 using aftermarket parts including new Feuling Rocker Arm Shafts with Feuling race Pump and Cam Plate. So far, so good after a 1000 miles. But to be honest, I still dont have the confidence riding this bike as I do my 2014 Street Glide.
Right now, I know of 6 bikes sitting at one of my local dealerships with Sumping issues. All CVOs. Two of the owners are brothers in my MC. Both bikes are Stock. Ones a 17 114 and the others an 18 117. Additionally, I have another Brother out in Houston that just got a 2019 stage 3 117 RGS (All Harley build) and his bike sumped as well. In each case, they were told that their bikes were fine.... WTF??? Theyre not fine when youre rolling down the highway and lose power and your bike starts engine breaking, smoking and backfiring.
In each case, it seems the new thing with the MOCO is that they dont want to follow the SB1450. I guess thats costing them too much money too. At what point will Harley follow suit like dare I say, Indian/Polaris and truly Address this. Indian stopped selling their 116 Kit, called in vendors like Carrillo and fixed the issue. Then, they recalled the bikes. Harley has the most loyal customer base in the game. It would be nice to see some authentic good will in return. Even the fanboys should empathize with that!
I guarantee the numbers of folks experiencing sumping is far greater than what we as customers will ever know. Most people have no clue what sumping is and what it feels like. Most have no knowledge of SB1450. The MOCO needs to step up and stop hiding behind aftermarket mufflers and tuners, which they know damn well has nothing to do with whats happening with these bikes.
Right now, I know of 6 bikes sitting at one of my local dealerships with Sumping issues. All CVOs. Two of the owners are brothers in my MC. Both bikes are Stock. Ones a 17 114 and the others an 18 117. Additionally, I have another Brother out in Houston that just got a 2019 stage 3 117 RGS (All Harley build) and his bike sumped as well. In each case, they were told that their bikes were fine.... WTF??? Theyre not fine when youre rolling down the highway and lose power and your bike starts engine breaking, smoking and backfiring.
In each case, it seems the new thing with the MOCO is that they dont want to follow the SB1450. I guess thats costing them too much money too. At what point will Harley follow suit like dare I say, Indian/Polaris and truly Address this. Indian stopped selling their 116 Kit, called in vendors like Carrillo and fixed the issue. Then, they recalled the bikes. Harley has the most loyal customer base in the game. It would be nice to see some authentic good will in return. Even the fanboys should empathize with that!
I guarantee the numbers of folks experiencing sumping is far greater than what we as customers will ever know. Most people have no clue what sumping is and what it feels like. Most have no knowledge of SB1450. The MOCO needs to step up and stop hiding behind aftermarket mufflers and tuners, which they know damn well has nothing to do with whats happening with these bikes.
Intermediate
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 47
Likes: 12
From: Sag Harbor, NY
Hey Non believers, I sumped a 17,18,and 19. All were stock at first and CVO's. They all sumped with stock engines. And the 17 and 19 were repaired and engines were replaced numerous times. My 19 only sumped once and I caught it right away. I have given up on Harley and installed the Fueling HP oil pump and cam plate. I haven't run it enough to determine if it's fixed or not. I will be bringing my bike up from Daytona Beach to Long Island, New York memorial weekend. If it sumps I will trade it in on a BMW. and will never buy another Harley Davidson ever.
QUOTE=Redrodyankneck;18186157]bought 2017 RGS had them install Stage 3 as the Stage 4 and not been made available in late 2016.
107 to 114 Stage 3 SUMPED
The bike sumped a few times and MOCO offered to pay to upgrade to Stage 4 if I paid for kit.
Being a power junkie I paid for Stage 4 kit and they installed.
This build SUMPED
Sumped 3 times and MOCO took it apart had lead tech from MOCO (Warren) come and mess with it.
They ended up installing new motor and new Stage 4 kit, guess what,
it SUMPED too.
I learned to keep a quart of oil with me and when it sumped just remove crank sensor, let oil out and top off.
2 years goes bye and the CVO was looking attractive.
So I asked dealer, did they fix sumping issue, of course they said oh yeah. New 5th Generation oil pump and Cam Plate with seal. Its definitely fixed. So I traded the 2017 for the 2019 RG with 117.
Im thinking thank god im out from underneath that other POS.
Well 160 miles into break in.
117 SUMPED, (dealer said a ring broke and a piece got stuck in o pump) it damaged the cylinder so the MOCO was going to replace topend under warranty.
since I was told it sumped due to broken parts I was still under assumption that M8 sumping was a thing of the past.
I bought Stage 4 kit and got it installed for free (because warranty was rebuilding topend anyway)
It has SUMPED 4 times and the compensator failed too but we are talking about sumping.
Dealer put me on demo bike, a stock 114 and it was doing great for 2 weeks, but hey its an M8 and you know
It SUMPED.
The moral of this post.
SUMPING IS NOT AND ISOLATED ISSUE.
ITS AN M8 ISSUE
DO NOT BUY.
unless of course only your speed limit obeying grandmother plans on riding the bike.
Your many bikes have sumped many many times.....where have you been? You say "do not buy an M8 " yet you keep adding Stage 4 knowing you have had problems with all your M8with stage 4 kits. Now you expect us all the believe that your stock 114 sumped. and you are getting a stage 4 installed yet again?........sumpins up with this report. I feel for the guys that have had problems and don't deny that the problem exists but how unlucky can you be dude, the odds are that you cannot possibly be that unlucky. [/QUOTE]
QUOTE=Redrodyankneck;18186157]bought 2017 RGS had them install Stage 3 as the Stage 4 and not been made available in late 2016.
107 to 114 Stage 3 SUMPED
The bike sumped a few times and MOCO offered to pay to upgrade to Stage 4 if I paid for kit.
Being a power junkie I paid for Stage 4 kit and they installed.
This build SUMPED
Sumped 3 times and MOCO took it apart had lead tech from MOCO (Warren) come and mess with it.
They ended up installing new motor and new Stage 4 kit, guess what,
it SUMPED too.
I learned to keep a quart of oil with me and when it sumped just remove crank sensor, let oil out and top off.
2 years goes bye and the CVO was looking attractive.
So I asked dealer, did they fix sumping issue, of course they said oh yeah. New 5th Generation oil pump and Cam Plate with seal. Its definitely fixed. So I traded the 2017 for the 2019 RG with 117.
Im thinking thank god im out from underneath that other POS.
Well 160 miles into break in.
117 SUMPED, (dealer said a ring broke and a piece got stuck in o pump) it damaged the cylinder so the MOCO was going to replace topend under warranty.
since I was told it sumped due to broken parts I was still under assumption that M8 sumping was a thing of the past.
I bought Stage 4 kit and got it installed for free (because warranty was rebuilding topend anyway)
It has SUMPED 4 times and the compensator failed too but we are talking about sumping.
Dealer put me on demo bike, a stock 114 and it was doing great for 2 weeks, but hey its an M8 and you know
It SUMPED.
The moral of this post.
SUMPING IS NOT AND ISOLATED ISSUE.
ITS AN M8 ISSUE
DO NOT BUY.
unless of course only your speed limit obeying grandmother plans on riding the bike.
Your many bikes have sumped many many times.....where have you been? You say "do not buy an M8 " yet you keep adding Stage 4 knowing you have had problems with all your M8with stage 4 kits. Now you expect us all the believe that your stock 114 sumped. and you are getting a stage 4 installed yet again?........sumpins up with this report. I feel for the guys that have had problems and don't deny that the problem exists but how unlucky can you be dude, the odds are that you cannot possibly be that unlucky. [/QUOTE]
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,382
Likes: 404
From: Illinois
In addition to. I have head breathers vented to atmosphere and plan on doing the drill/tap/line to vent the case.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,672
Likes: 643
You werent supposed to say that lol, more money I gotta spend now. I found an aftermarket setup for around 99 bucks, but Im thinking thats a get what you pay for deal
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,310
Likes: 1,079
The “Never-Sumpers” and “Sumping Deniers” have a harsh reality ahead. If HD redesigns the M8 engine in the 2020 bikes being launched this August, then all the M8s from 2017, 2018 & 2019 will be as popular for trade-in or resale as an infectious Leper at a family picnic. These M8 bikes are quickly becoming known for their numerous defects of which sumping is merely one of many.
No one should be surprised if at some point the legal profession see’s a new financial opportunity.
No one should be surprised if at some point the legal profession see’s a new financial opportunity.
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Road Master
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,169
Likes: 324
From: slinger wi
the never-sumpers and sumping deniers have a harsh reality ahead. If hd redesigns the m8 engine in the 2020 bikes being launched this august, then all the m8s from 2017, 2018 & 2019 will be as popular for trade-in or resale as an infectious leper at a family picnic. These m8 bikes are quickly becoming known for their numerous defects of which sumping is merely one of many.
No one should be surprised if at some point the legal profession sees a new financial opportunity.
No one should be surprised if at some point the legal profession sees a new financial opportunity.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,652
Likes: 11,421
From: State of Confusion
The “Never-Sumpers” and “Sumping Deniers” have a harsh reality ahead. If HD redesigns the M8 engine in the 2020 bikes being launched this August, then all the M8s from 2017, 2018 & 2019 will be as popular for trade-in or resale as an infectious Leper at a family picnic. These M8 bikes are quickly becoming known for their numerous defects of which sumping is merely one of many.
No one should be surprised if at some point the legal profession see’s a new financial opportunity.
No one should be surprised if at some point the legal profession see’s a new financial opportunity.
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Last edited by mjwebb; Apr 22, 2019 at 02:52 PM.