Your Twinkie-motored bike will run way hotter than that Sporty ever thought of. A synthetic will stand up better to the heat than the dino. The viscosity will not drop nearly as much with the synthetic as it will with the dino. A typical 20w-50 dino oil will shear down to a 10w-40 or even less within 500 - 1000 or so miles.

 

oil can discolor due to oil burning, excess fuel burning or just a stout detergent package doing the job it's supposed to do. maybe the syn 3 was cleaning what the previous lube left behind.
for some one to say that they don't like an oil coz it dirties up quickly doesn't make much sense to me. are there other problems with the m/c?

 

No problems with the bike at all. It runs strong and no mechanical issues at all. I mentioned it getting dirty quickly but that is not the reason for getting rid of the oil the main reason was the noise the engine made and the fact that the SYN3 was burning off with no signs of oil burning out the exhaust or oil fouled plugs. If you read the extensive paragraph in the beginning you would see that the SYN 3 did not perform to my expectations of what a synthetic oil should do. Most post on this site will confirm what I have said here in my post. Like I said in the begining I have been riding and working on my motorcycles for 20 years and think that I have some experience when it comes to something not being as it should both mechanically and performance wise. I might try some of the other synthetics out there and see if they perform better than the SYN 3 did. If I feel that I am wasting my money on a synthetic because there is no noticeable improvement then I will stick with my DINO oil. Thanks for the reply.

 

SJ,
SYN3 is a group III synthetic oil. Group III syns are called hydrocracked isodewaxed mineral oil. In english all that means is that it is dino oil that has been super refined to meet the specs of a low grade synthetic. Group III's do infact exibit some of the qualities of synthetic. ie, more uniform molecules, higher shear resistance ect. With that said, I have never used SYN3. I think its produced by Citgo, a Venazualen company who contracts to whatever oil company will make SYN3 and then slap a HD sticker on it. I'd venture to say if you bought a quart in California and a quart in New York, poured them in two seperate bowls, they would even be different colors. Harley Davidson is in the business of making money, not oil. Sorry for the rant.
With that said, the synthetics that are also being discussed here, AMSOIL, Mobil 1 are group IV Synthetics and contain no mineral oil at all. They are typically PAO's (Polyalfaolifins), 100% man made. Therefore they contain no contaminates that are commonly found in petroleum base stocks. Their resistance to thermal breakdown is well recorded and one of the biggest benefits of a synthetic, and also your engine. Synthetic oil does not burn like a petroleum oil therefore leaves no or little deposits on your internals, also a benefit to your engine. A synthetic oils lubricity is far superior to petroleum oil because of the uniform molecules, so you will have less wear and cooler running temps. All good reasons to use synthetic oils. If you change your oil as recommended by petroleum oil companies, 2500-3000 miles you are changing the oil after its useful life has ended. That means at least for some period of time, your dino oil was not doing the job it once did when it was new. This is where the benefits of a synthetic come into play. In most cases the wear and tear being caused by spent dino oil will not be realized until you experience a mechanical breakdown. Your engine will run strong, sound fine, even with scored bearings....until they fail. If you can take documented science and apply it, knowing that a synthetic is causing less wear, cooler running conditions, cleaner running conditions and therefore longer engine life, there is no better reason to use a quality synthetic oil.
I also wanted to address the issue of the oil appearing "dirty" quickly. This can be caused by several things. Residual oil in the sump at the time of an oil change, excessive engine wear, blow-by that could be caused by sticking rings, drag racing, inferior film strenght of the lubricating oil on the cylinder walls, dirty or inefficiant air filtration. All good reasons to look at a quality synthetic oil.
Just my .29 cents

Steve[sm=icon_rock.gif]

 

Thanks sedbiker62 for your very informative breakdown of good reasons to use a synthetic oil. Yours is the best I've heard. I think that I will try Mobile 1 next time to see how it does. I wish that the other companies would make their oils more readily available to purchase. I know in Colorado Springs that the autozone I went to did not have the Mobile 1 20W50 and neither did Walmart. I guess I will have to order it. Thanks again for the info.

 

I have to take the other side of this arguement!

I swithced over to SYN3 on my '03 FXSTB and ran it in there (all three-oil, primary, and tranny) for 3 years til I sold it.

Never had any issues and it was ridden hard. I plan on switching to SYN3 once my SG gets 2k on it.

 

hi there SJ12DS, i too have reverted to using mineral oils in my scoot. it is a 92 fatboy i have had since new. for many years i ran MOTUL 300 V, some say the best ester synthetic available over the counter. however, any advantages that the syn has were not utilised by me eg racing, extreme temperature operation, extended oil change etc. i did not have any noise or consumption issues as you did.
i did not understand that there is a generalisation that syn 3 is CRAP, but that there were better synthetic oils out there for the same or less lolly. presently i am running a 20w60 diesel oil in my engine which is readily available here and the evo just loves. my understanding is that the gap between min and syn is closing rapidly, and many of the advantages of synthetics are now shared by dino oils.
this is my 2nd hd, the 1st was a new lower rider sport in '89. before that, riding and wrenching tri/bsa/nortons since 1971. happy riding

 

Hello bonnie john, your understanding of the gap between mineral oil and synthetic oil "closing rapidly" is with all due respect, errored. One must first have a general knowledge of oil refinement to understand the inherent differences between the two. For simplicity, mineral oil comes out of the ground. It is the result of decaying organic matter, plant and animal. It takes thousands, maybe millions of years to evolve into the crude pumped from the ground. Although the molecular structure of the plants and animals change over time, the fact remains there are millions of different types, sizes, shapes, weights of these molecules. Refining does infact narrow the uniformity of the molecules, however thats all it does. Petroleum base oils still maintain a diverse mixture of these molecules. With additive packages, multi-weight petroleum oils are possible, and without question have far greater capabilities than they once did.
On the other hand, synthetic oils are engineered from the molecule up, not the other way around. This allows far greater control over the end results. Some of which are to create a lubricant that can maintain its lubricating properties for extended periods of time under the same conditions that cause a petroleum oil to degrade, principally heat. The synthetic molcules are also engineered to withstand the mechanical stresses placed on them without shearing down as quickly as a petroleum based lubricant. Synthetics do not burn in the same way a petroleum does, therefore, does not carbon up, sludge up, varnish up the internals of your engine. The uniformity of sythetic oil molecules allows for far greater lubricity, thereby creating far less friction (less heat, greater mechanical efficiancy), less wear (runs cleaner, lasts longer, fewer repairs).
I'm not trying to change your mind, you should use what you're comfortable with. But keep in mind that once upon a time, the best lubricant out there was vegetable oil, or whale oil.

Steve[sm=icon_rock.gif]
[quote]ORIGINAL: bonnie john


hi there SJ12DS, i too have reverted to using mineral oils in my scoot. it is a 92 fatboy i have had since new. for many years i ran MOTUL 300 V, some say the best ester synthetic available over the counter. however, any advantages that the syn has were not utilised by me eg racing, extreme temperature operation, extended oil change etc. i did not have any noise or consumption issues as you did.
i did not understand that there is a generalisation that syn 3 is CRAP, but that there were better synthetic oils out there for the same or less lolly. presently i am running a 20w60 diesel oil in my engine which is readily available here and the evo just loves. my understanding is that the gap between min and syn is closing rapidly, and many of the advantages of synthetics are now shared by dino oils.
this is my 2nd hd, the 1st was a new lower rider sport in

 

also keep in mind that what drove the development of synthetic motor oil was NASA needing an oil that could withstand extreme heat. thats what started it all. now the american industry and capitalism got together and thought hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, lot mor cars on the road than spacecraft. lets work up an automotive version. i wouldnt use anything but synthetic. AMSOIL IS MY LUBRICANT OF CHOICE AND I HAVE USED EVERY GOOD OIL ON THE MARKET AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER.

 

[quote]ORIGINAL: sedbiker62

Hello bonnie john, your understanding of the gap between mineral oil and synthetic oil "closing rapidly" is with all due respect, errored. One must first have a general knowledge of oil refinement to understand the inherent differences between the two. For simplicity, mineral oil comes out of the ground. It is the result of decaying organic matter, plant and animal. It takes thousands, maybe millions of years to evolve into the crude pumped from the ground. Although the molecular structure of the plants and animals change over time, the fact remains there are millions of different types, sizes, shapes, weights of these molecules. Refining does infact narrow the uniformity of the molecules, however thats all it does. Petroleum base oils still maintain a diverse mixture of these molecules. With additive packages, multi-weight petroleum oils are possible, and without question have far greater capabilities than they once did.
On the other hand, synthetic oils are engineered from the molecule up, not the other way around. This allows far greater control over the end results. Some of which are to create a lubricant that can maintain its lubricating properties for extended periods of time under the same conditions that cause a petroleum oil to degrade, principally heat. The synthetic molcules are also engineered to withstand the mechanical stresses placed on them without shearing down as quickly as a petroleum based lubricant. Synthetics do not burn in the same way a petroleum does, therefore, does not carbon up, sludge up, varnish up the internals of your engine. The uniformity of sythetic oil molecules allows for far greater lubricity, thereby creating far less friction (less heat, greater mechanical efficiancy), less wear (runs cleaner, lasts longer, fewer repairs).
I'm not trying to change your mind, you should use what you're comfortable with. But keep in mind that once upon a time, the best lubricant out there was vegetable oil, or whale oil.

Steve[sm=icon_rock.gif]
[quote]ORIGINAL: bonnie john


hi there SJ12DS, i too have reverted to using mineral oils in my scoot. it is a 92 fatboy i have had since new. for many years i ran MOTUL 300 V, some say the best ester synthetic available over the counter. however, any advantages that the syn has were not utilised by me eg racing, extreme temperature operation, extended oil change etc. i did not have any noise or consumption issues as you did.
i did not understand that there is a generalisation that syn 3 is CRAP, but that there were better synthetic oils out there for the same or less lolly. presently i am running a 20w60 diesel oil in my engine which is readily available here and the evo just loves. my understanding is that the gap between min and syn is closing rapidly, and many of the advantages of synthetics are now shared by dino oils.
this is my 2nd hd, t