A few years ago American Iron Magazine did an article on the thermal breakdown of conventional oils at given temps. As oil temps reach 250 -280 degrees F. the thermal protection and lubricity of the oil is compromised and the oil never recovers from this heat damage. Synthetics can take heat above 325 degrees before breaking down. The new stock EFI bikes are pumping more heat throughout the engine and cases. Just my 2 cents.

 

How do you know that there are no benefits? Have you ever had a UOA to verify. With no UOA's this conclusion is based on opinion not facts.

1. False
2. In order to get all of the synthetic out you will need to some short oil changes. Like 250 -500 mile oil changes.
3. I have only used HD oil when I have used Dino.
4. I have mostly used HD oil filters. I have used one Amsoil filter and saw no difference in UOA.

 

I used Blackstone for Oil Analysis .. And Many Times they tell me from the Results that Amsoil is doing it's job well.. From my expeience it lowers Temps 20 degrees, longer life and for me anyway, about 2.00 More a Quart than Any Dino Oil made for V Twins unless maybe Wal Mart has some unknown Bargain Basement Brand..

 

This is true. And the only reason I use synthetic oils. A good dino 20w50 is Brad Penn www.bradpennracing.com

 

***********************************************

1. I ran HD Dino when my bike was brand new for the first few oil changes, then ran Mobil-1 for a few years, then changed to Castrol Dino since. I have had no issues with over 100,000 miles on this bike. No leaky head gaskets or engine seals or exploding cam chain tensioners. Regardless of oil used, I change oil and filter at regular intervals.

2. Drain it hot. Replace filter. Replace with new oil and ride it until the next oil change.

3. Castrol 20W50

4. HD stock filter

 

There are so many oil misconceptions in this thread, and prevalent in all the motorcycle forums for that matter. Everyone who really cares about this stuff, needs to look for their oil information somewhere other than on Harley forums. I recommend www.bobistheoilguy.com and further links you will find there.

It is a fact that dino oils have come a LONG, LONG way since the days when it was recommended you change oil every 3 months or 3000 miles...yet greed keeps everybody who profits from the practice, keep preaching the gospel. Dino oils are now very close to synthetic oil in terms of quality and protection. The one area where the syn oil really outshines dino is in resistance to thermal breakdown...which is the reason why I choose synthetic oils in my air cooled Harley.

synthetic oils are fully compatible with dino oil. You can mix them if you have to, and it's foolish to think you have to get every last drop of synthetic out of your engine lest it 'contaminate' your dyno oil.

As another poster mentioned, the bad rap syn oils got for causing leaks is from the days of poorly refined dino oils gumming up gasket surfaces causing the seals to dry out...then the higher quality detergent base stocks of the syn oil cleaning out the gunk which rewet the seals and caused some seeping. Many times the gaskets would rewet and reseal with a retorquing of the gaskets. Switching from syn to dino has never been a problem.

Extended oil drain intervals do work. I run Mobil 1 15W-50 automotive formula [$26/ 5qt container at Walmart] in my engine for 7500 miles per change. The key is keeping the oil clean. I change filters every 2500 miles. I haven't run any oil analysis, but I don't feel I have to. I've torn my motors apart and seen the results of my practices. Do you really think Amsoil would certify their V-twin formula for 10,000 miles if it would put your motor at risk? Keep it clean with filter changes and run that oil longer. It's the only way to get your value out of the expensive syn oils....especially if you're going to buy into the "must be motorcycle specific B.S."...which cost twice as much to hardly any benefit.

The most asinine practice I've ever seen on one of these forums was one guy who bought Mobile 1 V-twin for his bike and still changed oil every 2500 miles, but didn't change the filters till 5000 miles....RETARD! Lets put clean oil in with a dirty filter thats smart.


FWIW: I read a very good study done, albeit with a car, where they sent oil off for analysis every 1000 miles to see how long they could run quality synthetics with more than adequate protection left in the additive packages. Filter changes and top offs were done every 5000 miles. Last time I saw it, they had run Mobil 1 for 21,000 miles and still there was more than ample additives left, but it was getting low enough they decided to end the experiment. They then switched to Amsoil and repeated...I believe they were still going strong at 18,000 miles.

 

This is the kind of intelligent oil debate you will find at an oil forum:


The reality is that I don't know of any Harley engine that failed due to lubricant brand/grade selection issues, if a reasonable choice was made. Engineering design and inconsistent manufacturing quality are different stories, however ...

Show me the evidence where a Harley engine failed becaues of the use of HDEO, but some super-premium mega-$$$ PAO would have saved the day; maybe then I'll see the factual basis.

We've been over this time and time again. The heat in the Harley TC engine is no hotter than the heat in a turbo-charger on a light-duty diesel truck pulling a 10k pound travel trailer up the Rockies. Sustained EGTs can get up to 1250 degF, and short bursts can go as high as 1500 deg F. And the only thing cooling the turbo is the oil. Further, today's CJ-4 fluids are designed for serious EGR use; talk about a highly designed package. Does your Harley recycle it's spent exhaust back into the engine to dump yet more heat and soot into the cylinder?????? Not for one second to I believe that a Harley engine is any harder on oil than a highly loaded diesel engine. Think your Harley gets any hotter sitting at stop light than does that diesel truck pulliing the camper, when it pulls to the top of a long off ramp in the mountains, and then sits there waiting it's turn to enter the right of way? I'm not saying that Harleys are not hard on oil; they can be. But today's HDEOs are robust for their operating environment as well.

I have no objection to people using the brand/grade they feel is most appropriate for their ride.

But let the opinions stop at the door of factual basis. Show us the UOAs indicating dino HDEO caused major wear, but PAOs would have prevented it. Show me the tear down photos where HDEO trashed any engine, but PAOs could have stopped the plight. Engine failures are typically due to some engineering flaw, or manufacturing defect. As long as you use a reasonable selection for brand/grade of oil, the lubricant will not be the cause of damage or excessive wear. Could you use a mundane PCMO 5w-20 in a Harley? Maybe, but I would not advise it! But a quality 15w-40 dino HDEO? Sure, for a long time.

Geeze - most guys dump the oil out of their Harley LONG before it's used up anyway, regardless of brand or grade. Their lives are an obsession, with committment to babying their baby. I'm OK with that, and apparently so are they.

This same argument got twisted around when we discussed the Harley "5um" filter and it's "need" for use on the TC engine. But when Wix bought some of the Harley "5um" super-duper filters and tested them for filter efficiency, they found that the Harley "5um" premium filter performed no better than the Wix 51348 (a widely used, common filter with no "special" attributes).

If some people want to use high-end products on their Harley, that's perfectly well and good. Just don't try to convince the rest of us that it's "needed". It's a "want" for you, but not a "necessity" for the engine.

To go right to the motorcycle specific area: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Board=9&page=1

 

Intelligent debate my ****...

 

Most of the guys I know or ride with put over 20,000K hard miles a year on their bikes, and many of them now have over 100,000 miles on the ticker.

Majority of them are running 'regular' Mobil 1 synthetic 15W50, which can be purchased locally in 5-quart containers for around $21.00. That's what, all of $4.25 or so a quart?

And those 20,000+ miles a year are here in the lower midwest States, where temperatures in the summer of 100 degrees or higher are not uncommon.

Other guys I know with high mileage bikes think we are stupid to spend so much for oil, and all they use are conventional fluids such as Rotella T 15W40 or Castrol GTX 20W50.

During the part 39+ years of owning Harley's and being involved in the motorcycle community, nobody I know has had any major engine issues caused by the type of oil they use.

Most engine and mechanical issues are caused by rider error and/or lack of preventive maintenance.

Harley engines aren't very smart... They more or less could care less what type of fluid you use as long as the oil and filter are changed at reasonable intervals.

But each to their own. If you want to buy into all the marketing hype and feel that your engine is being abused unless you use the latest "High Dollar Motorcycle Specific Fluids" that's your option....

The below is what I run in most of my Harley's, but anything else would probably work just as well...

 

1. I'm not afraid of sudden catastrophic engine failure due to the oil. I'm more concerned with minimizing the slow wear down of the engine due to sludge, carbon, leaks, etc. I'm sure you can have a good rebuild done with the money you save by using conventional oil, but that means you either have to put that savings in the bank at each oil change or you have to come up with it at rebuild time. I just find it easier to put it in the oil pan each change.

Of course, that assumes that conventional oil increases sludge, carbon, and gasket dry-out. I'm not saying it does or doesn't. I just know what I feel more comfortable with.

2. Peer pressure is just as strong as marketing hype. I'd say it's a safe bet that there are people out there wanting to use high-dollar synthetics, but don't because they don't want to be perceived as being RUBs with more money than sense.

3. That said, I am sick and #$%&ing tired of having to jump through hoops to get the high-dollar synthetic. So much so that I switched to Mobil1 last change so I could just get it around the corner at Autozone. I'm even considering switching to Syn3/HD360/Formula+ so I can get everything--including filter and plug o-rings--in one place. I love working on my bike, but I hate making trips to multiple stores for (or, worse yet, having to mail order) all the parts.