Run year round as long as its not below 35. Change the oil once a year and filter ever other time. I can't tell any difference between 10-40, 15-50 or SYN3.

 

Thats kinda how I am, above 32 deg, I go, Below 32 deg the heater in my truck works real good.

 

JMO but I wouldn't even use it in the engine. Much better oils available at the same price or even a better price that ARE a full synthetic. Why would I pay synthetic oil prices for a blended oil that is 60% synthetic and 40% dino oil?

According to the "Material Safety Data Sheet" for H-D's SYN3, it is chemically a blend of 60% synthetic and 40% petroleum oils. But, the chemical composition notwithstanding, the courts have ruled that it is legal for them to advertise their "60/40 blend" as a "synthetic" motor oil.


Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) on the SYN-3, as filed with the Federal Government.
Manufactured by - Citgo Petroleum.
Composition section:

Component
CAS #
Concentration

(1) 1-Decene Homopolymer, hydrogenated
68037-01-4
50% - 70%

(2) Proprietary Ingredients
Proprietary Mixture
1% - 10%

(3) Polyisobutylene
9003-27-4
1% - 10%

(4) Distillates, Petroleum, Hydrotreated Heavy Paraffinic
64742-54-7
0% - 20%

(5) Distillates, Petroleum, Solvent-Refined Heavy Paraffinic
64741-88-4
0% - 20%

(6) Zinc Alkyldithiophosphate
68649-42-3
0% - 2%

Item (1) is a Group IV base oil. unable to locate the manufacturer of this base oil. Group IV and V base oils are the only "true" synthetics to the cognoscenti.

Item (2) is probably their additive package (boron, calcium, magnesium, phosphorous, moly), but it is conceivable there could also be some "secret" synthetic oil, maybe an ester type oil, included in it.

Item (3) is a fancy name for synthetic rubber (or elastomer) but this is probably considered to be "synthetic" oil as well.

However, Item (4) is a Group II base oil, namely Conoco Pure Performance Base Oil, either 110N, 225N or 600N. no one is calling a Group II oil a synthetic.

No information on the group number of Item (5), but it is Conoco's Cit-Con 650N Base Oil. It's presumed that it is a Group I oil as it is solvent refined. Most quality blenders are not using Group I oils in their premium motor oils and they are not considered synthetics.

(From the MSDS for the HD 360 20w50 oil: The major base oil constituents in it are the same ones as are listed in Items (4) & (5) above.)

I think the Items (4) & (5) above, are to keep the old air-heads running without bearing skid and gasket leaks. Good for them, but not for us?

Harley-Davidson talks about SYN3 in their advertising as:
"Developed with a proprietary blend of three synthetic base stocks, ..."

Or not ?

Since there are significant amounts of Group I and II oils in the SYN3, could the MoCo have stretched the definition of "synthetic" a bit further than Castrol did when changing Syntec from a PAO Group IV base to a hydro cracked Group III base?

Exxon/Mobil (Mobil 1 synthetic) lost a lawsuit trying to go after a few oil companies for advertising blends as full synthetic. Mobil lost, and now the oil companies do not have to disclose on the label it contains Group I, II or III base stocks which are all petroleum based.

So it is legal for Harley to market syn3 as a full synthetic, even though it is only 60% synthetic and the rest petroleum based.

Group I

Group I oils are the simplest, and usually will not be found in motorcycles.


Group II

Group II oils are refined by processes known as hydro cracking and isomerization. They have fewer impurities than Group I oils. These oils are the typical “dino” oils that are used in our bikes.


Group III

Group III oils are synthetic oils "so to speak". But they are not the type of synthetics that are built up from scratch but modified from dino base stock. They are actually crude oils from the ground that have been refined by a process known as hydroisomerization. HD Syn 3 falls into this category.
Basically it means a combination of processes that remove more unwanted impurities from the crude oil.

Notice above that group III oils are called "synthetic".
It took a lawsuit, and a firm of lawyers, and a bunch of law suits to decide that. The hydroisomerization process actually changes certain molecules around enough to create new molecules. These molecules are pretty uniform in size and shape, just like in “real” synthetic oil. These new molecules are more resistant to oxidation, so they’ll hold up better and last longer than before.


Group IV

Group IV oils are synthetic oils and are man made. These are one of the groups that most people think of when they talk about synthetic oil. The largest parts of these synthetic base stocks are known as “PAO”, for polyalphaolefin. This stuff starts with ethylene gas, a molecule with 2 carbon atoms, and builds up to a molecule with 10 carbon atoms. Then three of these 10 carbon molecules are combined to form the actual PAO. Each molecule is exactly like every other molecule. The molecules are long chains, are more stable, flow more readily, better resist heat induced breakdown, don’t thicken as much from high temperatures, better resist oxidation, and don’t “boil” off, than their dino oil base stock cousins.


Group V

Group V oils are ester-based synthetics. They made from diester, polyolestors, polyesters, and complex esters. They are extremely stable under high pressure, and resist heat, often to near 500ş F. They are polar molecules, containing an electrical charge that causes them to bond to metal surfaces. These oils are very expensive, and seldom encountered in our motorcycle world because of the price.

PS. I wouldn't use Amsoil either so we share that thought at least

What do you use in the trans and primary?

 

Guess since we are being open here, AC in truck fills good when it's 96. Thanks for all the info peppi. Since I go way back and keep everything till it drops and never really had a name brand oil problem do not think a lot about it. When I switched twice a year I would run 10-40 in motor in winter. Only change transmission and primary ever few years. Just run Syn3 in primary and formula+ in transmission. Do not want bike to out last me. Got 40K on it and other then broken parts from abuse had no real problems. Do my own work. Been in both sides of engine in my albums Does sound like a rotary tiller in a gravel bed.

 

If you don't ride under 30F then you have no need to switch to 10w40. 20w50 Syn3 will work fine. The additive pack in Syn3 & HD360 are almost identical with the difference being Syn3 uses a highly refined base stock oil. You will have no problem.

 

Another fine oil thread heading for the crapper!!!!! Where do we find these stats?

 

Question for peppi or could you elaborate on:

"I think the Items (4) & (5) above, are to keep the old air-heads running without bearing skid and gasket leaks. Good for them, but not for us?"

Thanks

 

Funny how this allways happens. Just ask a simple question and it goes south in a hurry.

 

I live in Central Texas and run Amsoil 20w-50 (MCV) in the engine and primary and the Severe Gear 75w-110 (SVT) in the tranny year round...
No issues..

 

I have run syn 3 in temps into the teens without an issue. It works fine. May not be the cheapest oil around, but it will do the job. Harley still to this day says to run it all three holes, just check their website. It has a gl1 rating which is all a light duty low horse power trans needs. Gear oil is the same wt as motor oils with less additives, so if you think 75/90 wt gear oil is some super thick honey that gives superior protection, your missing the point. You can run 10/40 wt oil in the winter if your due for a change, but if not keep the 20/50 in there you'll be fine.,,