well I don’t disqualify what you are saying, just to me the chain is not a super big deal.

If I was interested in that type of ride I would not hesitate to buy it chain or not. To me it’s a set of semi knobbie tires away from a little bit of fire road fun that’s how I looked at but I wasn’t the consumer and you probably are.
I have also broke two belts because of drag racing and it’s not repairable, luckily they don’t damage when they snap like a chain can.
adventure bike I think solo adventure rider, maybe not even in North America chains are just easier to deal with, I don’t know the figures but it would seem it is a bike popular more outside the US then in.

 

Maybe with the demise of the FTR 1200 (at least if YT videos can be believed) a set of knobbies would make this an interesting scrambler. A mild off road alternative to the full on ADV bike.

 

Thank you for having the patience to explain.

 

Went to see both the '25 S & ST side by side. Both on black as that will be my choice either way. First look the ST looks great in person, all blacked out with red graphics and touches here & there. I'm 6' and sitting on the ST with ARH at its lowest point, as it hadn't been through PDI yet, it felt like the perfect height as I was flat footed with space between the seat and my crotch. The bike felt extremely light and well balanced. The bars and seat seemed comfortable as the seat sits you back a bit more than S. What was fantastic was when I put the side stand down to get off the bike leaned perfectly and confidently! Want to see if this can be mounted in a S if I go that way. I couldn't test ride either one yet as the salt is still too heavy on the roads.
When side by side it looked very obvious the ST was a stripped down S. It was done nicely though achieving a sporty look. The 17" front wheel absolutely says "Sport Bike"! The bike appears to have that low aggressive stance which it should.
I'm still deciding as the one uncertainty I have is can the ST still handle both dirt and gravel roads as this will be my only off road challenges anticipated. Maybe a change in tires is all it would need? Please share any feedback you may have to help a brother.
The lingering thought I've had since reading about the ST and comparing it to S is if I get the S I can remove items from the S and go with a smaller front wheel along with adding the quick shifter if I choose to down the road.
Will the ST be better at re-sale? I believe it will have larger market and less supply if I sell in the next couple years. Maybe purchase the ST and if it doesn't meet my needs there will always be great deals on the S!😀
I do like the beefy, tough look of the S in black for sure. Lastly, I have a CVO RG so having another "road bike" doesn't make sense unless I sell my current bike.

 

You're thinking of putting the ST side stand on the S? I'm pretty sure that isn't going to work. The ST kickstand is almost certainly quite a bit shorter than the S, because the S has 8.3 inches of ground clearance vs the ST's 6.7. So I wouldn't expect it to work but that's speculation.

As far as driving on a gravel road or hardpacked dirt roads, I am sure it would do fine, far better than any Harley touring bike because it's much lighter (250-300 pounds lighter) and has standable pegs. Put a set of TrailMax Missions on it and it should be very capable on hardpack or gravel. It doesn't have the suspension travel or large wheel size to tackle actual offroad stuff but I'd feel 100x more confident on it than I do on something like my Fat Bob, and people have been riding big touring bikes on gravel for decades so yeah, that should be no problem.

 

I agree with you 100% on that. I think it would handle hardpacked roads and gravel better than any Harley before it (except for the O.G. Pan Am of course). Getting to a campground would be a piece of cake on an ST. I view it as an answer to the FJ1300, Versys, and bikes like that - sport tourers, but vastly more road friendly than dirt-friendly. I don't think it's in competition with a regular dual-purpose like a GS or a V-strom, but some semi knobbie tires would make it so I wouldn't hesitate to take it to campsites or explore some hardscape fire roads. As soon as we get to rocks or anything technical though, I wouldn't risk it on a $20,000 street bike.

Probably true. If going seriously offroad a belt would be insane, and really a belt isn't a great idea anywhere that rocks are likely to get kicked up. The belt is for maintenance-free riding, that's really where it excels. As an example, I did the Continental Divide Trail in two segments, first from Mexico up to Rawlins Wyoming, and that was on a chain-driven bike. There was some nasty stuff and I had all the "adventure" I think most people would want, and the chain was the only way to go. But I had to clean and lube and tension that stupid thing every night, and began to hate it. Later when I had the time to tackle the second stage (Rawlins WY up to Canada) I abandoned the chain bike and got a shaft drive Moto Guzzi V85TT. It was glorious. It is the ultimate final drive for an adv/touring bike. Rugged, rock-proof, and maintenance free. Loved it. But it's certainly heavier than a chain.

For the Pan America S or CVO, the chain is the right choice, I agree.

For the ST, I think of it as being Harley's first real sport tourer, which is likely to never see much dirt road action, more like a Tiger 1200 GT or Versys, and not really anything like a 1200 Rally Pro or V-Strom. In reality, if they'd priced it a few thousand less than the O.G. Pan Am S and given it a belt, I think it would be far and away the best-selling Rev Max bike. 200 pounds lighter than the Low Rider S, with way way way more power, and plenty of Pan America guys say things like "I don't even miss my RG at all", man... that ST was so close to really breaking through. Give it some better wind protection and tone down its adv looks a bit, more like a Versys, and put a Tour Pack on the back and I think they would have really opened a lot of eyes. I just think they dropped the ball with the chain as it makes it that much less attractive to what I consider Harley's biggest customer: the Harley diehard who's looking to downsize from his giant touring bike, and the Harley new customer who doesn't want a "geezer glide". Neither of those guys (but especially the downsizer) want to be screwing around with chain maintenance.

A 1250ST with a shaft drive and some TrailMax Missions, that'd be my next bike. But like you said, the chain's not a deterrent to you at all, and obviously a whole lot of people agree. I think it's a big turnoff to Harley riders, I know it is to me, so yeah, to each their own.

 

Excellent comments, thoughts and recommendations! This has given me and I'm sure others a lot to think about. The ST feels so much more manageable, comfortable and assuming nimbler with the 17' front wheel as I haven't ridden it only lengthy seat of the pants testing. I want to believe this is a "toe in the water" for H-D to see how the market reacts and then move into the other suggestions you have made even if it gets a belt before a shaft drive. Thank you sir!

 

I would imagine the chain drive on mostly on-road conditions would require less maintenance than someone tearing up the dirt and would benefit from the added performance. But once you're used to chain maintenance, its really super simple. Mikes Motorcycle channel has a video on a quick kit to clean the chain on the road -
I'm excited to see the ST in person and give it a test ride. I just dont understand the overseas production reasoning and why they gave dealers the option to carry these. Dealers are already hostile to rev max engines, and i dont know of any in my area who will ever get them in. Not a great outlook.

 

Since you're 6 ft tall, I was wondering how you liked the rider's triangle (sitting on the bike, with your feet on the pegs)? Did your legs feel all cramped up, or was it comfortable? With that low seat, it looks like it would be miserable for a guy with long legs.

I'm sure that the stock low seat could be swapped out for a taller seat, or a rally seat in order for a taller rider to sit up higher in the saddle.

 

Simple but still a pain. I rode my V-STROM from NC to Alaska and back last year. 10K miles. I cleaned and lubed the chain every 500 miles. 20 times getting out the rags and lube, putting the bike up on the center stand, on your knees to clean/ lube. I'd much prefer a belt or shaft. But I love the rider position and capability of a big Adv and had reasons not to get a BMW or Triumph. A PA with a belt drive? Yeah, I'm interested.

People taking 500lbs, 150HP, $20K bikes on a singletrack is way overrated.