Shave .030" off the end of the comp nut.

I have solved the bang problem by uncrimiping and adding a spring from an old spring pac; problem solved. A pair of plier and 20 minutes, and of course, an old spring pac.`

 

Think his comp nut is like the picture in post 8.? A small amount would need to be taken off front face of 2 to accomplish what you describe. Interesting that you added a belleville spring to the stack. It's got me wondering now since this part in the older bikes looks so similar that there may be more springs in the say large cruiser as compared to a softail. Anyone checked if the part numbers are different in the older design.

My thought is this part was designed as a cushion for protection and if its banging it could be telling you that your beating the mule too hard. However it should not bang on starting. My buddy's 04 fatboy bangs ever one in a while and now mine is doing it since I messed with chain tension and its the starter drive, not the comp. Starter's bang. Comps' clack. Get out and pop the clutch hard on a third gear shift. That clack is the comp going full lock.

 

the plot thickens..Have a new starter clutch installed
waiting on springpac.. will test the compression force on old spring versus new before install....stay tuned

 

I don't think you understand. Shaving .030" off the comp nut is suggested to allow the full clamping pressure to be applied to the compensator. In the earlier models, loose compensators were fairly common; even though the specified torque was applied, the compensators would come loose because the required clamping pressure had not been applied. A separate issue from the spring issue.

The OPs problem is excessive play in the comp spring pac which is causing the bang/clack on startup. I am saying that if he can get his hands on an old compensator, pull a spring and add it to the offending spring pac, the problem will go away. The added spring will also minimize the compensator clack when going full lock.

I was not commenting on the purpose of the compensator or banging starters, although I don't think starters shoud bang either if everything is right. But, WTFDIK, I am just a shade tree hack that tries **** that is a little out of the box. It took all of 30 minutes to bend back the "ears" of the two compensators, pull a spring from one and add it to the spring pac of the other; guess what, it solved the problem. Even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then; better to be lucky than smart.

 

Right behind you man. My son torqued my compensator last time. Had loaned my big torque wrench out. Decided to torque it by the lb and then index. Made me a degree wheel and marked it on the comp. Torqued it with my 120 to 75lbs. Took my impact and tried to go the 45-50 max degree. Problem is the comp turns also since its not really keyed so the relation ship does not stay true to were I marked it to index the mark on the socket to the face of the comp. Just said screw it and hit it a few time with 3/4 impact.

 

ok , its running.
about 20 starts , no noise..

Did the "shave the comp nut" cant hurt.
new comp springpac..was tight against the "bent tabs"
old one was 3/8 of a inch away ..

my scoot has 190 or so compression SE heads,103 kit.
so far so good..if it "clank/bangs again will add spring from old springpac..
knowing it will reduce the cam travel to lockup.
maybe not get as much of a "running start" (old inertia ya know)

observation : when old springpac was in, I could turn the engine with socket and the cams would move about 1/4 inch and stay there until I turned it the opposite way , then stay about 1/4 inch off center the other way. "1/2 inch of slop"

with the new one in there , it doesnt move..

 

Glad you got it fixed. Would like to clear up one thing since we really need to keep error from being passed on. Reference attachment in post 2 and 6. Note the scored face of my compensator cover (5) on the face next to the scale with BEAN on it. That face goes hard against the face of the extension (2) with the large spine. I have a tooth marked with black marker for indexing. Facing or grinding on the nut (6) is not doing anything to decrease spacing since it does not push on the sliding cam (4) The outer face of the bellville spring washer presses on it on that outer face you see on it. In my post 2 you can see the slight scoring on them from it. This is a precision turned nut (6) and you risk making it not parallel and causing it to loosen in service. Think djl is referring to compensator on the 06 and later that has a serration on crank.

 

I do see your point.

If the nut bottoms out on the crank (which it will with everything off)
And the nut is slightly too long to compress everything together before it bottoms on the crank ,then the "slop in the assembly could be a culprit"

I agree that the nut is precision turned, that is why I cut it on a mill.

 

No, I am not refereing to the '06 and later comp nuts and I totally agree on keeping errors from being passed on. I am very careful about the information I post on this website and the information I have posted in this thread is error free. You still don't understand.

I don't disagree that the backside of the compensator cover (5) fits hard against the face of the extension (2); that's got nothing to do with keeping the comp nut from bottoming out against the nose of the crank. I am not sure what you mean by "decreasing spacing" since I don't know what spacing you make reference to. However, as you can see in the attached sketch of the assembly, if the comp nut (6) is a bit too long, the specified torque can be achieved but if the comp nut bottoms out against nose of the crank, the required clamping pressure to hold the assembly togehter has not been achieved and the "loose" assembly can result in the comp not coming loose or just a noisy compensator. This was a common problem on some of the early models and us DIYers started shaving .030" off the face of the comp nut to shorten the nut and increase the clamping pressure. H-D caught on to this problem and started selling shims that would fit behind the front face of the comp nut to achieve the same end.

I would agree that the comp nut is manufactured to spec and any shortening should be done on mill or lathe but there is nothing "precision" about a Harley. The lack of precision in manufacturing tolerances is the reason the issue developed in the first place.

Heybaylor gets it. See the attached sketch and I think you will understand what I am talking about. The sketch shows that the affect of shaving the end of the comp nut or adding a shim behind the front face of the comp nut achieve the same thing. The issue is clamping pressure, not torque. If the required clamping pressure is not achieved, the compensator assembly can be noisy and the comp nut can come loose under operation.

 

I still think you and I may be referring to a different thing. The decrease space I was referring too was from what I thought heybalor was revering to decrease by either adding another cup spring to his original pack or add a spacer inside to put some more pre-load on it. Adding a space inside the spring pack would only alter initial pre-load and not increase actual compression value (what ever that is) like another spring would. If you note my old album in my grf000 you will see I was careful when I set mine up a few years ago to make sure the area were you have the red circle to show and attempt to translate the fact that that area is very close. Think when mine torques at 165 the inner gap is only a 1/16" or so. I can see why you would add a shim that you show. I get now what you are saying.
Did you do the picture on CAD. Like to get a bigger copy of it for my forum folder if you don't mind. Pictures worth a 1000 words. Thanks.