I Keep snapping wires...what to do
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 8,603
Likes: 3,374
From: Cental, MI
If you glob solder on the first inch of the wire outside of the crimp I agree its rigid but sweating the connection just eliminates any voltage drops and it'll never pull out. To say crimp only is better isn't correct and the stuff made 40 years ago is probably made with better materials than today.
The chinese copper wire can also be copper coated aluminum[/SPOILER]. Lots of ways to cheap out.
The chinese copper wire can also be copper coated aluminum[/SPOILER]. Lots of ways to cheap out.
Yeowch... never thought of that... ain't got a prayer if it is Aluminum..or some basterdized product
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,773
Likes: 2,261
From: Ft. Wayne IN
Probably more than you want to know:
I spent 45 years in the electrical wire and cable manufacturing business. Engineering, R&D, manufacturing, quality, management and consulting before recently retiring. Have been on NEC Code Making Panels and served on the BOD of the Wire Association International. All phases from making copper and aluminum rod to aerospace,magnet wire (transformers, windings) as well as building wire, utility cable and automotive.
I have never seen ferrous (iron, steel) "blended" with copper as was stated by HELLONEWMAN. Some poorly made copper rod could have ferrous inclusions, but not an alloy or "blended". Ferrous inclusions are extremely small, rare and cause wire breaks during the manufacturing process, not in assembly or use. There is copper covered (or clad) steel (CCS) used in the center (core) wire of CATV cable and other coaxial applications. You would know CCS if you tried to use it. It's solid (not stranded) and VERY hard to bend.
I've spent a fair amount of time in China concerning wire and cable. There are thousands of manufacturers, most of which make good quality products these days, including their copper. It's naďve to blame the Chinese or other foreign manufacturers for poor quality when there are still a few substandard products made right here in the USA. Trust me, I know all of the major manufacturers.
Copper clad aluminum, as stated by HELLONEWMAN, is being used today, primarily to save money and decrease weight. In my opinion it is inferior and should be avoided, especially in the smaller gage sizes used in automotive wire. Most of it, indeed, comes from China. It will not flex well and does not survive the stresses of assembly well. You can see if it's copper clad aluminum if you cut it cleanly and look at the end.
Wire used in automotive (including motorcycles) applications are "governed" by SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) and ISO/IEC standards. All conductors are annealed to impart better flexibility. Normal annealed copper for such applications has a minimum of ~20% elongation. Hard-drawn copper has well under 10% elongation, is very stiff and is not suitable for assembly operations such as bending, flexing or crimping. Almost all automotive wire is made with 19 individual strands of copper wire. Each is normally annealed during the wire drawing process prior to stranding. You can get 7 individual wire strand wire, but it is inferior for flexibility and won't resist the abuse. A few manufacturers compress or compact (distorts the round shape of the individual strands to save space and insulation costs) stranded wire which re-hardens the outer strands and detracts from flexibility and resistance to assembly abuse. Always use 19 strand, annealed wire without compression or compaction for automotive (and motorcycle applications).
I spent 45 years in the electrical wire and cable manufacturing business. Engineering, R&D, manufacturing, quality, management and consulting before recently retiring. Have been on NEC Code Making Panels and served on the BOD of the Wire Association International. All phases from making copper and aluminum rod to aerospace,magnet wire (transformers, windings) as well as building wire, utility cable and automotive.
I have never seen ferrous (iron, steel) "blended" with copper as was stated by HELLONEWMAN. Some poorly made copper rod could have ferrous inclusions, but not an alloy or "blended". Ferrous inclusions are extremely small, rare and cause wire breaks during the manufacturing process, not in assembly or use. There is copper covered (or clad) steel (CCS) used in the center (core) wire of CATV cable and other coaxial applications. You would know CCS if you tried to use it. It's solid (not stranded) and VERY hard to bend.
I've spent a fair amount of time in China concerning wire and cable. There are thousands of manufacturers, most of which make good quality products these days, including their copper. It's naďve to blame the Chinese or other foreign manufacturers for poor quality when there are still a few substandard products made right here in the USA. Trust me, I know all of the major manufacturers.
Copper clad aluminum, as stated by HELLONEWMAN, is being used today, primarily to save money and decrease weight. In my opinion it is inferior and should be avoided, especially in the smaller gage sizes used in automotive wire. Most of it, indeed, comes from China. It will not flex well and does not survive the stresses of assembly well. You can see if it's copper clad aluminum if you cut it cleanly and look at the end.
Wire used in automotive (including motorcycles) applications are "governed" by SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) and ISO/IEC standards. All conductors are annealed to impart better flexibility. Normal annealed copper for such applications has a minimum of ~20% elongation. Hard-drawn copper has well under 10% elongation, is very stiff and is not suitable for assembly operations such as bending, flexing or crimping. Almost all automotive wire is made with 19 individual strands of copper wire. Each is normally annealed during the wire drawing process prior to stranding. You can get 7 individual wire strand wire, but it is inferior for flexibility and won't resist the abuse. A few manufacturers compress or compact (distorts the round shape of the individual strands to save space and insulation costs) stranded wire which re-hardens the outer strands and detracts from flexibility and resistance to assembly abuse. Always use 19 strand, annealed wire without compression or compaction for automotive (and motorcycle applications).
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 375
Likes: 15
From: Illinois
Probably more than you want to know:
I spent 45 years in the electrical wire and cable manufacturing business. Engineering, R&D, manufacturing, quality, management and consulting before recently retiring. Have been on NEC Code Making Panels and served on the BOD of the Wire Association International. All phases from making copper and aluminum rod to aerospace,magnet wire (transformers, windings) as well as building wire, utility cable and automotive.
I have never seen ferrous (iron, steel) "blended" with copper as was stated by HELLONEWMAN. Some poorly made copper rod could have ferrous inclusions, but not an alloy or "blended". Ferrous inclusions are extremely small, rare and cause wire breaks during the manufacturing process, not in assembly or use. There is copper covered (or clad) steel (CCS) used in the center (core) wire of CATV cable and other coaxial applications. You would know CCS if you tried to use it. It's solid (not stranded) and VERY hard to bend.
I've spent a fair amount of time in China concerning wire and cable. There are thousands of manufacturers, most of which make good quality products these days, including their copper. It's naďve to blame the Chinese or other foreign manufacturers for poor quality when there are still a few substandard products made right here in the USA. Trust me, I know all of the major manufacturers.
Copper clad aluminum, as stated by HELLONEWMAN, is being used today, primarily to save money and decrease weight. In my opinion it is inferior and should be avoided, especially in the smaller gage sizes used in automotive wire. Most of it, indeed, comes from China. It will not flex well and does not survive the stresses of assembly well. You can see if it's copper clad aluminum if you cut it cleanly and look at the end.
Wire used in automotive (including motorcycles) applications are "governed" by SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) and ISO/IEC standards. All conductors are annealed to impart better flexibility. Normal annealed copper for such applications has a minimum of ~20% elongation. Hard-drawn copper has well under 10% elongation, is very stiff and is not suitable for assembly operations such as bending, flexing or crimping. Almost all automotive wire is made with 19 individual strands of copper wire. Each is normally annealed during the wire drawing process prior to stranding. You can get 7 individual wire strand wire, but it is inferior for flexibility and won't resist the abuse. A few manufacturers compress or compact (distorts the round shape of the individual strands to save space and insulation costs) stranded wire which re-hardens the outer strands and detracts from flexibility and resistance to assembly abuse. Always use 19 strand, annealed wire without compression or compaction for automotive (and motorcycle applications).
I spent 45 years in the electrical wire and cable manufacturing business. Engineering, R&D, manufacturing, quality, management and consulting before recently retiring. Have been on NEC Code Making Panels and served on the BOD of the Wire Association International. All phases from making copper and aluminum rod to aerospace,magnet wire (transformers, windings) as well as building wire, utility cable and automotive.
I have never seen ferrous (iron, steel) "blended" with copper as was stated by HELLONEWMAN. Some poorly made copper rod could have ferrous inclusions, but not an alloy or "blended". Ferrous inclusions are extremely small, rare and cause wire breaks during the manufacturing process, not in assembly or use. There is copper covered (or clad) steel (CCS) used in the center (core) wire of CATV cable and other coaxial applications. You would know CCS if you tried to use it. It's solid (not stranded) and VERY hard to bend.
I've spent a fair amount of time in China concerning wire and cable. There are thousands of manufacturers, most of which make good quality products these days, including their copper. It's naďve to blame the Chinese or other foreign manufacturers for poor quality when there are still a few substandard products made right here in the USA. Trust me, I know all of the major manufacturers.
Copper clad aluminum, as stated by HELLONEWMAN, is being used today, primarily to save money and decrease weight. In my opinion it is inferior and should be avoided, especially in the smaller gage sizes used in automotive wire. Most of it, indeed, comes from China. It will not flex well and does not survive the stresses of assembly well. You can see if it's copper clad aluminum if you cut it cleanly and look at the end.
Wire used in automotive (including motorcycles) applications are "governed" by SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) and ISO/IEC standards. All conductors are annealed to impart better flexibility. Normal annealed copper for such applications has a minimum of ~20% elongation. Hard-drawn copper has well under 10% elongation, is very stiff and is not suitable for assembly operations such as bending, flexing or crimping. Almost all automotive wire is made with 19 individual strands of copper wire. Each is normally annealed during the wire drawing process prior to stranding. You can get 7 individual wire strand wire, but it is inferior for flexibility and won't resist the abuse. A few manufacturers compress or compact (distorts the round shape of the individual strands to save space and insulation costs) stranded wire which re-hardens the outer strands and detracts from flexibility and resistance to assembly abuse. Always use 19 strand, annealed wire without compression or compaction for automotive (and motorcycle applications).
Cruiser
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 102
Likes: 4
From:
IF You have All your Fingers & Toes, YES, You CAN Count that High! LOL Kidding With ya there my Friend, Just KIDDING.
I Don't Have THE Answer to Your Question of SAE Etc. anymore. After I Had a Stroke, I Lost Pretty Much All my Short Term Memory, and Even Though I Specialized in ELECTRICAL & ELECTRONICS, for Around 15 - 20 Years, I Could No Longer Memorize Schematics to do That Work, and Was Pretty much Forced in to a Very SMALL Disability Pension, and it's Kind of one of those, USE It, Or LOSE It, IF Ya Know what I mean. SORRY I Can't Help though, BELIEVE Me........
Wish You ALL The Luck though Good Sir!
Not that it Matters, BUTT, I Was a SOLDER Guy, With VERY RARE Occasions of JUST a Crimp. That Was RARE though.
ME
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 21,115
Likes: 7,638
From: Poolville
Just tin the end and then crimp it in with a good pair of crimpers. Where's the flexibility if you solder it? Use these crimpers and have no issues.....
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Wire-Crimpe....c100290.m3507
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Wire-Crimpe....c100290.m3507
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 375
Likes: 15
From: Illinois
Just tin the end and then crimp it in with a good pair of crimpers. Where's the flexibility if you solder it? Use these crimpers and have no issues.....
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Wire-Crimpe....c100290.m3507
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Wire-Crimpe....c100290.m3507
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