Hi all, new here- normally a british bike guy- great site. Got a shovel oiling Q. Searched and found many low oil issues, but none with this description. Working on a friends nose cone(actually STD cases/aftermarket frameso somewhat unknownspecifics). He didn't know the history, only wanted it running. Went through the standards, placed a (drag spec.) type pressure guage. Regardless of it'saccuracy, we've verified oiling to the top, and pressure throughout seems normal. 40-60 cold, 5-10 warm. Took it for a shakedown after many repairs, and only after running for some time at hwy speed did I notice "low" pressure. Like 0. Wasnt justthe guage, really was running hot. Cooled and thought, then fired again- Normal pressure. Got to speed for a while, then gone. Running 70wt oil, all lines seem to be correct and do get hot. Oil is comming back to the tank it seems, and runs through a cooler/filter on front down tubes. Hopin' for a bone here beforetearing into the pump. Any suggestions about doing so? or other ideas?
TIA! Phil

 

Nothing's wrong with the bike. It's normal for shovels that after the engine has warmed to get less than 10 lbs of pressure, even at highway speed. My '81 shovel pumps 45 to 50psi when stone cold, and near zero when warmed up, even at 70 mph. In any case, those oil pressure gauges are never accurate. It's oil volume and notoil pressure you should be concerned with. Just make sure your oil tank is full andyou should be OK - shovels can burn a quart in as little as 500 miles! So checkoil level often. When you first turn on the ignition, the oil light should light. Once you've started the motor, the light should go off - a good indication that (1) there's oil pressure, (2) the oil pressure switch's working, and (3) the oil light works. As for oil temp, itcan reach 200 to 210 on hot summer days and you'd still should be OK. If you're running an oil cooler, thatcould also lower your oil pressure since the oil has to circulate furtherthereby taxing the oil pump. IMHO, oil coolers are not all they crack up to be, but I digress. Remember, the shovel is an air-cooled engine. An oil cooler is basically a mini radiator, but requiresa lot of air moving through it to be effective - meaning you have to be moving to take advantage of the oil cooler. But that's why your engine has all them big fins around those 2nicelookingjugs to dissapate heat, even when you're sitting still.I had an oil cooler that came with my shovel when I bought her. I took the oil cooler off and have not noticed any change in oil operating temp; i.e. 165 to 195F, depending on weather...I live in the Pacific NW...195 when summer temps reach 90+ and below 175 when temp dips below 65F. It actually ran cooler at highway speed after I took the oil cooler off, but that's just me and my own experience. I run 20-50 wt oil - easier for starting. I don't think you need 70wt, but other might disagree. The oil has to circulate in orderto remove heat from vital moving engine parts, as well as to reduce friction. Personally, I wouldn't run anything heavier than 60wt in the summer, and definitely 50 wt should be used during winter. Hope this helps to alleviate your concerns.

 

0 oil pressure at RPM would concern me. My expeirence is that while running at RPM (anything above idle) there should be some oil pressure. Even a hot shovel head will show around 5PSI or more cruising.

I am concerned with the oil cooler however. Any idea of the brand and does it have a thermostat. Maybe it is plumbed wrong and the thermostat is shutting down the flow of oil when it should be opening it when hot. Just a thought.

I agree with Shovels4ever though. Oil flow is the main concern here not pressure.

20/50 is usually good enough for the climate here in the PNW. I even have used RedLine synthetic oil withgood results.

 

I doubt that fil is really getting 0 oil pressure since the oil is returning to the tank. Those oil pressure gauges are difficult to read, especially when you're on the freeway doing 60+ with the wind buffeting your sunglassesup against youreyeballs, and the bike's vibrating justenough to give you double vision! That oil gauge is way down there as you're glancingdownbetween yourright kneeand the air cleaner tryingto find andsee that needle. And sure enoughonce you set your eyes on it,it looks as if it's pointing barely pass the 0 mark. If one looks closely at them gauges, however,there's not much room between the 0 hash mark and the more-or-less 5 psimark; so it mightlook as if it's registering zerofrom afar.And ever since I'd qualified for that AARP cardmy eyeballs ain'twhat they used to be (that oil gauge is at least 3 feet away depending on how tall you is, and it's usually kind of dark down below - it always is!). So whenever I look down at that tiny little o'oil pressure gauge, it looks as if my oil pump has gone south! My take is that as long as you have good oil pressure when you first startup (45-50 psi), and the oil light's working properly anddoesn't light up when you're going, you're good to go. I hate to rely on idjit lights, but in the case of shovel oil pressure, you just gotta have faith!

It's not just a ride...it's a lifestyle!

 

Good points and thanks for the replies.
Shovels4ever, unfortunately, there is no idjit light. Sorta chop type thing. I agree with the lack of accuracy on these guages, but more of an idiot light in itself. Failed to mention that the reason for concern is that the bike runs very well untill it has run for some time at speed, then died at idle. Looked down at guage and noticed it at zero. Reved up to (say 3-4k), and it did come back up to 10 or so, just seemed like it should be more.

The cooler- unknown kind, more of a finned filter. Not like a lockhart, more of a triangle finned thing.

Bike acted like it was overheating, but might need further diagnosis. I'd like to eliminate oil, then move on. If I understand, I can take the bike to temp, then check the oil temp. If under 210 and moving to the top (just loosen line?), I can probably rule it out right?

Next I would suspect electrical failure at temp. New battery, & coil. I was a little concerned that the oil "cooler" is mounted only slightly above and in front of regulator. Something worth considering? Am I going in the right direction>?
Thanks again fellas/
fil

 

O.K.

This a stretching a bit but, where is the oil tank in relation to the engine? How big is it? I have had rare instances where at high speed all or most of the oil gets pumped into the top of the engine and cannot drain back down fast enough.

Have you checked the oil level when this happens?

 

If the bike is overheating, it wouldn't necessary just die at idle. The engine would just labor, and if allowed to prolong it wouldeventually seize up. Or you'd have other catastrophic meltdown, such as throwing a rod 'cause the bearings are fried! Overheating an engine (especially at speed) willcause the engine to slow downdramatically and then, kaputt! Unless you pull over right quick, shut her down, let her cool off, find the cause and fix it. My very first bikewas a Triumph 250 Trophy with a single Amal (of course, since it had only 1 cylinder - duh!). Being a neophyte in motorcycling at the time, I didn't know jackchit about leaning a carb out too much - it didn't help that it had an air leak either. So as the little thumper got hotter and hotter, the bike begin to slow from 70 to 35, really quick. Like a complete idjit and a total arsehole, I kept pouring on the throttle to no avail (you see I was ayoung dumb numbnut at the time!). After about another 1/4 mile, the bikejust gave up...ona freeway overpass aroundmidnight - of course!You find out really quick who yourtrue friends are when you breakdown on a bike in the middle of the night in the middle of puking nowhere!The short of it was that little 250 sat as a basketcase until I sold her 10 years later - still in a basket, literally! I had every intension to rebuild it, but one thing led to another...anyway, I was soon after seduced by a '70 BSA Lightning (it was free, so what the hay). After which, I had a hankering for hogs, and bought my firstHarley Davidson-a '68 generator shovel, and a realhonest to goodnesschopper with a 12" over front-end and in a '49 knucklehead straightleg ridge frame to boot! And as they'd say, the rest is history!

Anyway, I think your trouble is more of fuel or ignition related. Does it just cut out, or does the motor choke and puke, and then cut out at idle? How's the carb? Is it adjusted correctly? Does it have air leaks? Is the ignition timing correct? Are the plugs fouled? We're from the government, and we're here to help ya! Inquiring minds want to know! Tell us more.Maybe we can help ya...or, maybe we might just screw it up mo'! Nothin' venture, nothin' gained. If all else fail, get a bigger hammer! Or do what I often do, stop what y're doing, go to the fridge, pull out a Bud, assess andcontemplate your situation thoroughly, have another Bud or 2 or 3, go take a nap. And when you wake up the next moring, everything will be clear! That is if you're not hungover.


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Some engines had a modification done to them by some builders with the idea that oil delivery to the lower end would be better, but in fact it does what you describe with a hot engine. What was done was to drill the plug in the end of the pinion shaft so that the crank assembly received oil constantly from the cam cover oil gallery. Oil should be being delivered to the hole in the side of the pinion shaft when the oil holes align with the bushing hole and pinion hole during a revolution. The bottom end receives the correct amount of oil and the pressure remains high enough not to starve the rest of the engine. Check the pinion shaft end plug, it may be drilled....

 

I had a similar problem with mine... after replacing the coil!! Turned out the coil had a broken wire in the secondaries but didn't show it's ugly face 'til it got hot and expanded. Talk about a head scratcher. Since it was a new coil I made the stupid mistake of not diagnosing it as being the problem so it took me a while to find it.

Don't know if you've got the same problem but it's worth a look. Quickest way to find out is put another one on and go for a ride.

 

Hey powdercoater...nice bikes, but your garage is tooooo clean! :-)