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2018+ Softail Models Breakout

Damn. Which map to use?

 
  #11  
Old Yesterday, 12:32 AM
silbery
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Thanks for the link...I'll give it a read!
 
  #12  
Old Yesterday, 09:31 AM
martin10
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Originally Posted by Hulkss View Post
Auto tuning does not change richness or leaness directly. That is controlled by the lambda (Air Fuel Ratio) table. When running in closed loop mode, the engine controller is constantly adjusting, based on the O2 sensors, to stay on the commanded fueling table. The VE table values are automatically modified by fuel trim calculations.

When running in open loop (transient or heavy throttle conditions), the bike defaults to the stored Volumetric Efficiency settings to calculate the needed amount of fuel. If these VE tables are not correct, the bike will be rich or lean depending on the error. This is done because the stock narrow band O2 sensors can not read the AFR, they just report rich or lean as compared to commanded lambda values near stoichometric. They are also a little too slow for rapidly changing conditions.

It is very challenging to get the open loop portion of the VE tables correct by driving around with narrow band sensors. Its much safer and accurate on a dynamometer with wide band O2 sensing.
Thanks. I am aware of the role the VE tables play in tuning. Like you say it is indirect. And agree about the narrow band O2 sensors. On the other hand, I can usually get a bike running well enough to suit me provided the base map is close enough. You appear to know a lot more about it than I do. I typically do about 3 auto tune sessions of about 30 minutes and call it good. I also play around with the timing a bit based on studying maps that are similar. I asked the question because of the huge difference between the 2 maps available to me. Cheers
 
  #13  
Old Yesterday, 09:45 AM
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Hulkss
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Originally Posted by martin10 View Post
I asked the question because of the huge difference between the 2 maps available to me. Cheers
Look closely at the H-D Pro Street Tuner maps for Fuel and Spark. Autotune your VE. If you always use good premium fuel, bump the H-D spark tables +3 degrees.

Timing is way different on the new bikes with dual plugs. H-D has this figured out. Same goes for the lambda (fuel) table and four valve heads.
 
  #14  
Old Yesterday, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Mchad View Post
FuelMoto maps are made specifically for the M8’s, and they are plenty aware of how they run - they do a lot of R&D. They’re not just rebranded twin cam maps! If for whatever reason the OP thinks his bike is running rich, I’d suggest he contact FuelMoto. They really provide the best maps you're going to get without bring the bike to a dyno tuner, and want to keep their excellent reputation, so they will work with you to optimize things.

Jamie has tweaked maps for me many times, without question.

My experience over the years is FuelMoto provides the best non-Custom tunes you can get. Far better then those from Dynojet. However I’ll admit I haven’t tried a M8 dynojet download.

OP, did you tell FuelMoto that your S&S slip ons were the EPA version and not the catless version? If all you have is slip ons and nothing else (I.e. stage 1 air cleaner) you probably got their “stock improved” tune. I’d try it and follow their auto tune instructions (4, 20 min autotunes, each starting with the previous autotuned map, hitting as many cells as possible). ANY map not specifically made for your exact bike (i mean on a dyno) will always benefit from autotunes. It’s worth the couple of hours, Not a challenge at all....
I was not criticizing FM or their maps, but they sent him a map that didn’t match his set-up (and according to the OP might in fact be a mismatch if they were unaware of the cat in the pipe) whereas Dynojet sent a map for his specific components. I was just suggesting it might be a close starting point for auto tuning. I’m well aware of FM’s reputation, but the wrong map or too rich with a cat adds a lot of heat and isn’t great for any motor no matter how much you love them.

The improved stock map they sent sounds like a better fit in his case, but that was not what was implied in the first post.
 
  #15  
Old Yesterday, 11:38 AM
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I have been running the FM map for a while with my full bobcat, and honestly, it runs pretty good. I have yet to autotune it even. I get no downshift pop. They do a pretty good job. Like others have said talk to Jamie, there might be a reason they have the map setup that way. He will give you a honest explanation.
 
  #16  
Old Yesterday, 12:47 PM
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Hulkss
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Originally Posted by Hdbkstl View Post
I get no downshift pop.
I understand not wanting "downshift pop", my bike has none. Coasting against the engine without popping is not at all indicative of a well tuned bike. Coastdown is a tiny portion of the operating envelope. Other than the sound when coasting it means nothing.
 
 


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