Damn. Which map to use?
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Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,584
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From: VA
Damn. Which map to use?
I got my power vision license for my 114 ci 18 Heritage from Fuel Moto. Only upgrade is S&S slip on mufflers. Fuel Moto sent me a map but admitted it wasn't specifically for the S&S mufflers. I suspect it was for the much more wide open Rienhardts that they like for Softails. Happened to notice that Dynojet themselves have a map for the S&S mufflers. Downloaded that map and compared to the Fuel Moto map. Huge difference between the two. Fuel Moto map is much richer. The S&S mufflers have cats in them so probably closer to stock. Think I will use that map and auto tune from there. I would prefer to use the closer map from the get go as I hate fooling with auto tune sessions. Sound like the best approach?
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Joined: Feb 2008
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Copy either on the run auto tune on one of them. No session with auto tune start it and ride . if you stop it picks right back up were you left off.
Last edited by smitty901; Jul 13, 2019 at 04:25 PM.
Club Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 10,734
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From: SWFL
Jamie has tweaked maps for me many times, without question.
My experience over the years is FuelMoto provides the best non-Custom tunes you can get. Far better then those from Dynojet. However I’ll admit I haven’t tried a M8 dynojet download.
OP, did you tell FuelMoto that your S&S slip ons were the EPA version and not the catless version? If all you have is slip ons and nothing else (I.e. stage 1 air cleaner) you probably got their “stock improved” tune. I’d try it and follow their auto tune instructions (4, 20 min autotunes, each starting with the previous autotuned map, hitting as many cells as possible). ANY map not specifically made for your exact bike (i mean on a dyno) will always benefit from autotunes. It’s worth the couple of hours, Not a challenge at all....
Last edited by Mchad; Jul 13, 2019 at 06:16 PM.
HDF Community Team
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,351
Likes: 2,309
From: Wisconsin
I got my power vision license for my 114 ci 18 Heritage from Fuel Moto. Only upgrade is S&S slip on mufflers. Fuel Moto sent me a map but admitted it wasn't specifically for the S&S mufflers. I suspect it was for the much more wide open Rienhardts that they like for Softails. Happened to notice that Dynojet themselves have a map for the S&S mufflers. Downloaded that map and compared to the Fuel Moto map. Huge difference between the two. Fuel Moto map is much richer. The S&S mufflers have cats in them so probably closer to stock. Think I will use that map and auto tune from there. I would prefer to use the closer map from the get go as I hate fooling with auto tune sessions. Sound like the best approach?
Cut and paste the various tuning table contents into your tuner. Then go ahead and auto tune or just ride it. The bike will adjust itself OK as you will be very close.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,584
Likes: 520
From: VA
Thanks for all the comments. I have not installed the mufflers yet. I installed and autotuned the Fuel Moto "improved stock" map with the stock mufflers. The auto tune took a fair amount out of the VE tables. The bike ran darn near perfect before. At least I thought so. Runs a bit stronger and smoother now and seems to have a tiny bit more bottom end. Best of all I raised the idle from 850 to 950. I like that a lot better. I will probably install the mufflers and load the Fuel Moto S&S map. Knowing auto tune will lean it out a bunch. That has been the case for me with any Fuel Moto map in the past. Living at 2000 feet elevation probably contributes to that. Again, thanks for your input.
HDF Community Team
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,351
Likes: 2,309
From: Wisconsin
Thanks for all the comments. I have not installed the mufflers yet. I installed and autotuned the Fuel Moto "improved stock" map with the stock mufflers. The auto tune took a fair amount out of the VE tables. The bike ran darn near perfect before. At least I thought so. Runs a bit stronger and smoother now and seems to have a tiny bit more bottom end. Best of all I raised the idle from 850 to 950. I like that a lot better. I will probably install the mufflers and load the Fuel Moto S&S map. Knowing auto tune will lean it out a bunch. That has been the case for me with any Fuel Moto map in the past. Living at 2000 feet elevation probably contributes to that. Again, thanks for your input.
When running in open loop (transient or heavy throttle conditions), the bike defaults to the stored Volumetric Efficiency settings to calculate the needed amount of fuel. If these VE tables are not correct, the bike will be rich or lean depending on the error. This is done because the stock narrow band O2 sensors can not read the AFR, they just report rich or lean as compared to commanded lambda values near stoichometric. They are also a little too slow for rapidly changing conditions.
It is very challenging to get the open loop portion of the VE tables correct by driving around with narrow band sensors. Its much safer and accurate on a dynamometer with wide band O2 sensing.
Last edited by Hulkss; Jul 14, 2019 at 01:05 PM.
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5th Gear
Joined: Jun 2017
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From: Winfield, MO
I have just bought a 2011 Ultra Classic to replace my 2007 Ultra Classic. I got it with an aftermarket air cleaner and some slip-on after market pipes that the guy told me were "shotguns". Don't see any model number or anything on them. Bike seemed really lean and ran hot so I got a Power Vision for it. I have put the dynojet MAP on it for slip-ons and air cleaner, done 4-5 autotune sessions of 20 minutes or so, added 10+ fuel and +5 spark to "Decel" to try to get rid of the decel popping. It seems to be running a lot better now, but I'm wanting to really get it dialed in with the computer software. Been trying to read up on how to interpret log files and use the WinPV software to make required changes to get it right, but can't find much information to school myself on the process. Hoping someone here will be able to steer me to some good information with some examples of what to look for in the data and what changes to make to correct deficiencies, etc. Anyone have some help for me with this?
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5th Gear
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: Winfield, MO
I actually found a link to Pro Street Tuner training on the site below that someone mentioned. I'm doing the tuner training videos now...hopefully it will give me some needed background information that will prove helpful with the Power Vision software too.
http://streetperformancetuner.harley...reetTuner.aspx
UPDATE:
Just finished watching all of the relevant videos about AFR, VE, Spark, etc. It did definitely give me a better idea of what these things are and how they work together. I'm still hoping for something like these videos that is made specifically for the Power Vision WinPV software though. Hopefully someone has found something like that somewhere!
http://streetperformancetuner.harley...reetTuner.aspx
UPDATE:
Just finished watching all of the relevant videos about AFR, VE, Spark, etc. It did definitely give me a better idea of what these things are and how they work together. I'm still hoping for something like these videos that is made specifically for the Power Vision WinPV software though. Hopefully someone has found something like that somewhere!
Last edited by silbery; Jul 14, 2019 at 11:13 PM.
HDF Community Team
Joined: Sep 2013
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From: Wisconsin
