Battery or starter?
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Joined: Mar 2015
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From: Alabama
Battery or starter?
I have a 2006 Softail Springer with 34K miles on it. Love the bike! Lately I'm having starting issues. It hasn't failed to start, but it is giving me an uneasy feeling that we are getting near a failure.
It cranks slowly, the headlight almost goes out completely when cranking, but it starts. Occasionally it stalls on a compression stroke but if I release and hit the start button again it cranks and fires off.
This afternoon, after about 30 minutes of riding I pulled the seat and checked it with a volt meter - it read 13.0 V
Turning on the ignition it dropped to 12.9.
While cranking it varied between 9.9 and 10.1 V.
Once started it climbed up to about 13.5 V.
When shut off it decayed back to 13.0 V
Does this sound like a battery issue or should I be looking at cables and/or starter? It looks like the starter is a real pain to get to so I hope that isn't it. Anyone have any ideas?
It cranks slowly, the headlight almost goes out completely when cranking, but it starts. Occasionally it stalls on a compression stroke but if I release and hit the start button again it cranks and fires off.
This afternoon, after about 30 minutes of riding I pulled the seat and checked it with a volt meter - it read 13.0 V
Turning on the ignition it dropped to 12.9.
While cranking it varied between 9.9 and 10.1 V.
Once started it climbed up to about 13.5 V.
When shut off it decayed back to 13.0 V
Does this sound like a battery issue or should I be looking at cables and/or starter? It looks like the starter is a real pain to get to so I hope that isn't it. Anyone have any ideas?
Road Warrior
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,956
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From: CA
How old is the battery? Do you use a tender (HD pretty much requires it)?
The following has been floating around
The following has been floating around
Charging system notes from 2015 Electrical Diagnostic Manual
.
Voltage Regulator
Rectifies 3 phase power from stator and regulates voltage output.
In other words the Stator produces a 3 phase AC, (alternating Current) and the Voltage Regulator uses Diodes to change the AC to DC. It also limits the voltage to somewhere around 14.7 V. The output of the Voltage Regulator is connected to the battery.
Alternator
Consists of 2 main parts: Rotor and Stator
The Rotor is attached to the crankshaft and has a series of permanent magnets. The Stator is attached to the crank case and has a series of wound wire coils.
The rotating magnetic fields around the stationary coils induces an AC Voltage in the coils.
The 3 phase AC Voltage from the stator is sent to the Voltage Regulator to be rectified to DC Voltage and to be regulated to a useable limit, generally just over 14.5 Volts.
The output of the Voltage regulator is connected to the battery. The positive output goes through the Maxi fuse and to the starter before connecting to the Battery.
Battery testing
First check and clean battery terminals and ground cables.
Voltmeter test:
Connect voltmeter positive to positive terminal on battery and voltmeter negative to battery negative terminal.
12.7 v = 100% charge
12.6 v = 75%
12.3 v = 50%
12.0 v = 25%
11.8 v = 0%
If you are unsure of the battery’s condition charge it fully and take it to an auto parts store and have it load tested. If the Battery passes all tests check the charging system.
Charging System Testing
With the bike in neutral and voltmeter attached to the battery start the engine and rev to 3,000 rpm. If the voltage measures above 13 v the charging system is operating properly. Voltage above 14.7 V indicates the voltage regulator may be bad.
Stator testing
If less than 13v disconnect the Stator from the Voltage Regulator.
The end of the connector from the stator has 3 sockets. Set your meter to ohms and connect one lead to the battery negative. With the other lead make contact with the conductor inside each socket. You are checking for a grounded wire, each socket should show an open circuit to ground, no continuity.
Now take the lead you had on the battery negative and with both leads check resistance between each of the three sockets, 1-2, 2-3 and 1-3. The resistance should be 0.1 – 0.3 ohm.
Next check the Stator’s AC output. With the Stator unplugged from the VR and the bike in neutral, start the bike. Run the bike at 2,000 rpm and check the Stator output between sockets 1-2, 2-3 and 1-3. The voltage should read approximately 32-46 Volts AC.
One other indication that the stator may be bad is if your primary oil smells like a burnt circuit board.
Voltage Regulator Testing
If the output is less than 13V from the Voltage Regulator to the battery disconnect the output cable from the VR. Check the resistance of the negative lead from the connector to the negative battery terminal. If the resistance is less than .5 ohm replace the VR. Greater than 0.5 ohm replace the wire and test the output of the VR again.
.
Voltage Regulator
Rectifies 3 phase power from stator and regulates voltage output.
In other words the Stator produces a 3 phase AC, (alternating Current) and the Voltage Regulator uses Diodes to change the AC to DC. It also limits the voltage to somewhere around 14.7 V. The output of the Voltage Regulator is connected to the battery.
Alternator
Consists of 2 main parts: Rotor and Stator
The Rotor is attached to the crankshaft and has a series of permanent magnets. The Stator is attached to the crank case and has a series of wound wire coils.
The rotating magnetic fields around the stationary coils induces an AC Voltage in the coils.
The 3 phase AC Voltage from the stator is sent to the Voltage Regulator to be rectified to DC Voltage and to be regulated to a useable limit, generally just over 14.5 Volts.
The output of the Voltage regulator is connected to the battery. The positive output goes through the Maxi fuse and to the starter before connecting to the Battery.
Battery testing
First check and clean battery terminals and ground cables.
Voltmeter test:
Connect voltmeter positive to positive terminal on battery and voltmeter negative to battery negative terminal.
12.7 v = 100% charge
12.6 v = 75%
12.3 v = 50%
12.0 v = 25%
11.8 v = 0%
If you are unsure of the battery’s condition charge it fully and take it to an auto parts store and have it load tested. If the Battery passes all tests check the charging system.
Charging System Testing
With the bike in neutral and voltmeter attached to the battery start the engine and rev to 3,000 rpm. If the voltage measures above 13 v the charging system is operating properly. Voltage above 14.7 V indicates the voltage regulator may be bad.
Stator testing
If less than 13v disconnect the Stator from the Voltage Regulator.
The end of the connector from the stator has 3 sockets. Set your meter to ohms and connect one lead to the battery negative. With the other lead make contact with the conductor inside each socket. You are checking for a grounded wire, each socket should show an open circuit to ground, no continuity.
Now take the lead you had on the battery negative and with both leads check resistance between each of the three sockets, 1-2, 2-3 and 1-3. The resistance should be 0.1 – 0.3 ohm.
Next check the Stator’s AC output. With the Stator unplugged from the VR and the bike in neutral, start the bike. Run the bike at 2,000 rpm and check the Stator output between sockets 1-2, 2-3 and 1-3. The voltage should read approximately 32-46 Volts AC.
One other indication that the stator may be bad is if your primary oil smells like a burnt circuit board.
Voltage Regulator Testing
If the output is less than 13V from the Voltage Regulator to the battery disconnect the output cable from the VR. Check the resistance of the negative lead from the connector to the negative battery terminal. If the resistance is less than .5 ohm replace the VR. Greater than 0.5 ohm replace the wire and test the output of the VR again.
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Joined: Jul 2009
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From: Straight Jacket Memories and Sedative Highs
Those numbers don't suprise me. When you first turn a bike off it will be a little high. Read it the next day. Should be around 12.7.
13.5 when running is low. Was it just idling? Rev it up and see what happens. It should be around 14.4.
I get 7-9 years out of batteries, and do not use tenders. I ride them. With 3 bikes it gets harder. I try to alternate. One during the day and one at night.
Short rides are bad for batteries.
But if it does sound slow starting, you may want a new battery. I would take some readings. If you don't ride much, maybe a tender.
12.7 in the morning. 14.4 when revved up.
20 volts per 1000 RPM AC, from stator when unplugged from volt reg, though I wouldn't go down that road yet.
Heat is hard on batteries, so the life of you battery may be shorter compared to WI. Over 77 degrees, they start to suffer.
Check cables are tight. You would be surprised, a small turn makes a difference.
13.5 when running is low. Was it just idling? Rev it up and see what happens. It should be around 14.4.
I get 7-9 years out of batteries, and do not use tenders. I ride them. With 3 bikes it gets harder. I try to alternate. One during the day and one at night.
Short rides are bad for batteries.
But if it does sound slow starting, you may want a new battery. I would take some readings. If you don't ride much, maybe a tender.
12.7 in the morning. 14.4 when revved up.
20 volts per 1000 RPM AC, from stator when unplugged from volt reg, though I wouldn't go down that road yet.
Heat is hard on batteries, so the life of you battery may be shorter compared to WI. Over 77 degrees, they start to suffer.
Check cables are tight. You would be surprised, a small turn makes a difference.
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Joined: Mar 2015
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From: Alabama
Thanks for the input! I ride year 'round, nearly 20K per year so I don't use a battery tender. I bought the bike a year ago in May with 13K on the odometer.
Got serious this morning started checking from the battery down. Got a faint spark when disconnecting the negative lead...electronics drawing a tiny bit of current? Cleaned all connections as I went, when I found a wire whose insulation was worn through by the head of a bolt. Not touching constantly but obviously rubbing when riding. Reconnected the battery after taping and re-routing the worn wire; engine started like it used to! Voltmeter read 14.0 at idle instead of 13.5, went to about 14.3 when revved. Voltmeter shows cranking at 10.8 volts instead of 9.9. I think we are back on the road!
Got serious this morning started checking from the battery down. Got a faint spark when disconnecting the negative lead...electronics drawing a tiny bit of current? Cleaned all connections as I went, when I found a wire whose insulation was worn through by the head of a bolt. Not touching constantly but obviously rubbing when riding. Reconnected the battery after taping and re-routing the worn wire; engine started like it used to! Voltmeter read 14.0 at idle instead of 13.5, went to about 14.3 when revved. Voltmeter shows cranking at 10.8 volts instead of 9.9. I think we are back on the road!
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From: Straight Jacket Memories and Sedative Highs
A spark when disconnect the battery is not unusual. Tend to see it more if it is darker in the room.
I would take care of the insulation that is rubbing. Electrical tape and maybe move or tywrap out of the way.
How old is the battery? If it sounds like it is cranking slow, it is usually low battery. question is why.
If the battery is not 12.7-12.8 in the morning, I would replace it. I realize they are expensive. 14 volts at idle sounds like you are charging. Granted it could be intermittent.
Myself, I go with Harley batteries because I have had such good luck. Though lots of threads about who makes them for Harley. Either way get a good battery. Deca and Oddessa or Oddessy are talked about alot.
My first guess is battery or loose battery cable.
DC clamp on amp meters have gotten cheaper. But that is probably overkill, i just like fooling around.
I would take care of the insulation that is rubbing. Electrical tape and maybe move or tywrap out of the way.
How old is the battery? If it sounds like it is cranking slow, it is usually low battery. question is why.
If the battery is not 12.7-12.8 in the morning, I would replace it. I realize they are expensive. 14 volts at idle sounds like you are charging. Granted it could be intermittent.
Myself, I go with Harley batteries because I have had such good luck. Though lots of threads about who makes them for Harley. Either way get a good battery. Deca and Oddessa or Oddessy are talked about alot.
My first guess is battery or loose battery cable.
DC clamp on amp meters have gotten cheaper. But that is probably overkill, i just like fooling around.
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From: Straight Jacket Memories and Sedative Highs
I get 7-9. The 7 year and 9 year old batteries will still starting. No tender. With 3 bikes, the miles are getting spread out over the bikes.
Not saying a tender is bad. But if you are riding atleast once a week, and putting decent miles on each time, not bar to bar. I don't think they are needed. I do do charge batteries over night during the winter and usually night before I plan on first ride.
Not saying a tender is bad. But if you are riding atleast once a week, and putting decent miles on each time, not bar to bar. I don't think they are needed. I do do charge batteries over night during the winter and usually night before I plan on first ride.
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