2015 Softail Heritage Classic - heat problem
Actually I think I put the question wrong in the first place. The right question is: What is the right temperature the Softail 2015 engine should work at? And if being like a crazy pizza oven it is normal, then how should I protect my "belongings", especially the right one from being "well done"? I had the same problem with stock as with tuning. So the first real question is if my engine is working at the right temperature. As I have seen in the forums lots of people are complaining about the extreme heat. I simply want first to have my bike working right and only later to find a way of self protecting.
The ultracool oil cooler it protected you from the heat, but how about the engine? Is it good or bad for it?
The ultracool oil cooler it protected you from the heat, but how about the engine? Is it good or bad for it?
Another think you can do to reduce how much heat you feel..."protect your belongings" are Floorboard Extensions, which you can see HERE. They make a pretty significant improvement.
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DKCustomProducts.com
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Thread Starter
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6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 11
Likes: 1
From: Bucharest
many thanks, really helpfull
Thank you a lot. As you well mentioned "there is no miracle solution" but the document really clarifies lots of my questions and now I have a clearer view of the solutions to the problem. It is the most complete solution analysis I have received.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 3,585
Likes: 889
From: Nowhere
Got 2014 Slim during break in period after 500 miles when I run 100mph here and there on highway for a while I will reach 270*F now after all is done after break in period I consistently see 220-230*F now.
I run stage one set up with Amsoil (the best for HD) I think I am in proper temp range now.
I run stage one set up with Amsoil (the best for HD) I think I am in proper temp range now.
Thread Starter
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6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 11
Likes: 1
From: Bucharest
You gave me some food for thoughts, and:
I made some empirical temperature measurements today (with a sensor kept with my fingers... empirical) after only 30min of simulating ston-n-go at 79F outside air temerature .. which is much lower than we have in summer 98F However the results are the following
1. oil tank exterior 224F
2. engine top 356F
3. rear exhaust on the cover before the curve 554F
I would add (excuse my ignorance) 50-70F to those measurements given the way I did them
Question: isn't it possible that the extreme heat coming from the top rear exhaust (554F) to be the main problem both to overheating the oil tank which is at 2inch far, and to my extreme discomfort? I have just noticed that the oil tank, rear cylinder and rear exhaust are practically "together" in the same spot.
Should I consider a thermo-protective coating for the exhaust?
What do you think?
p.s. pls note that I used a converter for the measurements as we use metric system
I made some empirical temperature measurements today (with a sensor kept with my fingers... empirical) after only 30min of simulating ston-n-go at 79F outside air temerature .. which is much lower than we have in summer 98F However the results are the following
1. oil tank exterior 224F
2. engine top 356F
3. rear exhaust on the cover before the curve 554F
I would add (excuse my ignorance) 50-70F to those measurements given the way I did them
Question: isn't it possible that the extreme heat coming from the top rear exhaust (554F) to be the main problem both to overheating the oil tank which is at 2inch far, and to my extreme discomfort? I have just noticed that the oil tank, rear cylinder and rear exhaust are practically "together" in the same spot.
Should I consider a thermo-protective coating for the exhaust?
What do you think?
p.s. pls note that I used a converter for the measurements as we use metric system
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 3,585
Likes: 889
From: Nowhere
I fought with temp issues on my sportster before. Oil cooler was great help (good one) For big twin you can also buy deeper oil pan that will expend oil capacity of fluid which will help. Since it is same model like mine I feel you might be on lean side of mixture as contributing factor. As far as heat transfer to oil tank from cylinder/heads or exhaust pipe I am sure this air is hotter hitting oul tank but not to this degree that will affect it that much as otherwise you will be literally frying your leg on red light. Considering massive amount of air flowing I wouldnt expect oil tank temperature to be affected more then 5-10*f/c if at all. If you have manual check step by step what can contribute to high oil temps and I am sure you will find whats up. Something might be not right but if your oil tank is 224*F you are right on the money so all is probably good.
I will consider 220*F correct temp
Unless you wont hear pinging noices from your heads during acceleration I woudnt worry much as this is real sign of things beeing too hot on HD.
With 220-270*F range (highway/stop-go traffic) I woudnt worry much but ride this like you stole it.
Buy this thermometer for oil tank for piece of mind. Oh and EU use higher octane fuel then US which also helps.
I will consider 220*F correct temp
Unless you wont hear pinging noices from your heads during acceleration I woudnt worry much as this is real sign of things beeing too hot on HD.
With 220-270*F range (highway/stop-go traffic) I woudnt worry much but ride this like you stole it.
Buy this thermometer for oil tank for piece of mind. Oh and EU use higher octane fuel then US which also helps.
Last edited by Burbur2; Sep 11, 2018 at 01:02 PM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 5,562
Likes: 4,758
From: Albuquerque, NM
I believe HD has a new "fan" kit which blows the hot air away from the cylinders and underneath the bike in front of the rear tire, so it's not blowing it on your leg, like the Love Jugs does. Others in other threads have said that part of their heat issue was due to the cat crossover on the pipes. However, I think the key is a combination of oil cooler and air fan cooler to get both the engine temps and the air temps near your leg down.
220 is a great temp to stabilize at. 250 is where HD has the ECM programmed to begin retarding timing in an effort to keep it cool. At 270 accelerated engine wear is occurring.
The new bikes (like a 2015 Softail) has ION Sensing for retarding the timing BEFORE there is pinging...so the bike can be FAR hotter than is healthy, and there will still be no pinging.
The items listed in the link I previously posted are the tried and true ways to reduce engine heat.
For reducing felt heat, it is amazing what moving the floorboards out 1.25" will do. You would not think that little would make such a large difference.
The new bikes (like a 2015 Softail) has ION Sensing for retarding the timing BEFORE there is pinging...so the bike can be FAR hotter than is healthy, and there will still be no pinging.
The items listed in the link I previously posted are the tried and true ways to reduce engine heat.
For reducing felt heat, it is amazing what moving the floorboards out 1.25" will do. You would not think that little would make such a large difference.
Thread Starter
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6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 11
Likes: 1
From: Bucharest
I highly appreciate the effort you put to try to correct the engineering mistakes of Harley. Small but clever things which make a difference. And more than that I appreciate that you share your findings. Thank you.
Unfortunately, I came to the conclusion that I have paid a very expensive lesson buying a Harley. I bought it because I love the look and I want to enjoy riding it. It seems that actually I have to become a mechanic, I have to worry about protecting the engine (overheat problems), comfort (burning "belongings) and safety (as the HD service did't replace my brake fluid in time and I was left without rear brake in the mountains, now I study the service book...:
( ). It's time, effort, money and stress. Only with the money I paid for the bike I could have bought three cars... The total cost of owning a HD is huge compared with the acquisition price... now I know :(
Sorry for this, it's not your problem, but now I become furious on HD and on me because I was so stupid. Apologize that I had the need to share my frustration with you.
You are very helpful in advising and sharing your hard work. You are a true smart professional which I doubt HD has any.
Thank you.
Unfortunately, I came to the conclusion that I have paid a very expensive lesson buying a Harley. I bought it because I love the look and I want to enjoy riding it. It seems that actually I have to become a mechanic, I have to worry about protecting the engine (overheat problems), comfort (burning "belongings) and safety (as the HD service did't replace my brake fluid in time and I was left without rear brake in the mountains, now I study the service book...:
( ). It's time, effort, money and stress. Only with the money I paid for the bike I could have bought three cars... The total cost of owning a HD is huge compared with the acquisition price... now I know :(Sorry for this, it's not your problem, but now I become furious on HD and on me because I was so stupid. Apologize that I had the need to share my frustration with you.
You are very helpful in advising and sharing your hard work. You are a true smart professional which I doubt HD has any.
Thank you.
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Thread Starter
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6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 11
Likes: 1
From: Bucharest
Yes my friend, it's obviously my 1st Harley. As the first mistake one my consider an accident, to repeat it is for sure a stupidity. That's why for sure I will never get my second one... I paid my lesson...
And for sure it is not "by chance" that the mountains in Europe are full of BMW's... All my friends with one HD who have a second bike don't have a HD.
When EU replied that they want to overtax the US motorcycles I smiled, as they don't need to.... HD is so noncompetitive it is not worth to bother about it. It is a pity that HD looks great only ... and the company is only "milking" the brand and look but in terms of tangible content is empty and far over-dated.
In despite of tax games between the countries, in the end only a free competitive market will make the rules, and in time, the consumer will solve it.
It is sad that I have noticed lots of good engineering thinking and professional expertise on the forums who invest freely their time, money and share their findings with others, while the arrogance of HD ignores all of this and continues to sell scrap at the price of diamonds. Time and the "natural rules of economy" will solve this in time.
I bet that HD never monitors the content of the forums... but probably they still preach that internet does not exist or it is a devil's tool.... And I am surprised that in a country with "too many lawyers" nobody has turned against HD that they destroy a "national icon" (and this is on top of customer protection)... I am not a lawyer but at basic common sense only the content of the forums is enough for a solid case. If I would have been american I will have a say about it.
And for sure it is not "by chance" that the mountains in Europe are full of BMW's... All my friends with one HD who have a second bike don't have a HD.
When EU replied that they want to overtax the US motorcycles I smiled, as they don't need to.... HD is so noncompetitive it is not worth to bother about it. It is a pity that HD looks great only ... and the company is only "milking" the brand and look but in terms of tangible content is empty and far over-dated.
In despite of tax games between the countries, in the end only a free competitive market will make the rules, and in time, the consumer will solve it.
It is sad that I have noticed lots of good engineering thinking and professional expertise on the forums who invest freely their time, money and share their findings with others, while the arrogance of HD ignores all of this and continues to sell scrap at the price of diamonds. Time and the "natural rules of economy" will solve this in time.
I bet that HD never monitors the content of the forums... but probably they still preach that internet does not exist or it is a devil's tool.... And I am surprised that in a country with "too many lawyers" nobody has turned against HD that they destroy a "national icon" (and this is on top of customer protection)... I am not a lawyer but at basic common sense only the content of the forums is enough for a solid case. If I would have been american I will have a say about it.