Oil pump grenade
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Novice
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 18
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From: Canada
Oil pump grenade
2003 heritage softail injected.
pulled the cam plate oil pump is destroyed some scoring on the pinion side of crank the run out is .007 +/- metal in the filter and the little screen had minimal debris
My question is should we pull motor and split cases clean out all oil journals piston oilers flush oil tank.Can debris get into the balancer parts?.
can we just slap new oil pump in Change oil and call it good what's recommended ?????
pulled the cam plate oil pump is destroyed some scoring on the pinion side of crank the run out is .007 +/- metal in the filter and the little screen had minimal debris
My question is should we pull motor and split cases clean out all oil journals piston oilers flush oil tank.Can debris get into the balancer parts?.
can we just slap new oil pump in Change oil and call it good what's recommended ?????
Last edited by Dudlybooth; Sep 24, 2024 at 06:20 PM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,144
Likes: 11,219
From: San Diego, CA
2003 heritage softail injected.
pulled the cam plate oil pump is destroyed some scoring on the pinion side of crank the run out is .007 +/- metal in the filter and the little screen had minimal debris
My question is should we pull motor and split cases clean out all oil journals piston oilers flush oil tank.Can debris get into the balancer parts?.
can we just slap new oil pump in Change oil and call it good what's recommended ?????
pulled the cam plate oil pump is destroyed some scoring on the pinion side of crank the run out is .007 +/- metal in the filter and the little screen had minimal debris
My question is should we pull motor and split cases clean out all oil journals piston oilers flush oil tank.Can debris get into the balancer parts?.
can we just slap new oil pump in Change oil and call it good what's recommended ?????
Sorry for the bad news of metal debris in your engine.
.
I believe most shops would recommend splitting the cases. They wouldn't want the engine to come back because missed debris ruined it again..
Do you know what caused the debris?
In your specific case, I would be most worried about the run-out number. The early twin cams usually didn't really have bad run-out numbers. IIRC, the runout started increasing , and the allowable runout spec was also increased '05+.
My '03 had 0.0025" at 20K miles when I addressed the cam tensioners. While your runout is within later Twin Cam spec., IMHO it is not normal for an undamaged 2003.
I would split the cases to address that runout. That would also allow for the secondary benefit of total flushing and removal of all debris from the cases..
Good luck with your decision, let us know what you decide and how it works....
HDF Community Team
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,774
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From: san antonio
This damage was caused by a crank runout of .007" that grenaded the oil pump which would tell me that the crank should be replaced with an S&S or sent to Hoban Brothers, AKA Darkhorse to be trued, balanced and plugged/welded. This was on an early model before the runout spec for warranty went from .003" to .012" so I would bet that the OEM crank came from the factory with less than .003" runout that has increased 100% and is likely to increase more if kept in service. Why take the chance to replace the oil pump and have a repeat?
Pull the motor, split the cases, replace or repair the crank and thorougly clean everything. Might be a good idea to contact Blackstone for a collection kit which the provide free, collect an oil sample and have it analyzed to get an idea how much metal was actually traveling in the oil. Also carefully inspect the balancer assembly during the process.
Pull the motor, split the cases, replace or repair the crank and thorougly clean everything. Might be a good idea to contact Blackstone for a collection kit which the provide free, collect an oil sample and have it analyzed to get an idea how much metal was actually traveling in the oil. Also carefully inspect the balancer assembly during the process.
Last edited by djl; Sep 25, 2024 at 03:11 PM.
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,019
Likes: 982
From: Ohio
As the guys above know, a rebuild is the correct way to insure that there are no future issues from debris running through the motor.
What does one do?
(1) I like the bike, so a rebuild expense is better than a new bike.
(2) A used motor, unless you know who it comes from, you really don't know what you have, I would rebuild.
(3) If rebuilding, improve how it runs, add 95" pistons and 3.875" bore, maybe an Andrews 26 set of cams, maybe better exhaust, a dyno tune if injected, most of the time a carb can be jetted and adjusted for satisfactory running. If it's a carb. maybe add a Daytona Twin Tec ignition.
Prices get high fast. But at minimum I would rebuild the motor as a stock 88 incher.
Also, the advice given above by djl and Hattitude is good advise.
What does one do?
(1) I like the bike, so a rebuild expense is better than a new bike.
(2) A used motor, unless you know who it comes from, you really don't know what you have, I would rebuild.
(3) If rebuilding, improve how it runs, add 95" pistons and 3.875" bore, maybe an Andrews 26 set of cams, maybe better exhaust, a dyno tune if injected, most of the time a carb can be jetted and adjusted for satisfactory running. If it's a carb. maybe add a Daytona Twin Tec ignition.
Prices get high fast. But at minimum I would rebuild the motor as a stock 88 incher.
Also, the advice given above by djl and Hattitude is good advise.
I'd buy a different bike. It's hard to say goodbye, but lots of low mileage used bikes on the market!
I caught mine early enough no damage, replaced the oil pump, cam (not needed), bearings, and cam tensioner. In your case, was the oil pressure light coming on? If not, was the pressure sensor shot? I tried that first, but if you have debris it sounds like the red oil icon light should have been glowing bright. Too late now, just been down that trail.
I caught mine early enough no damage, replaced the oil pump, cam (not needed), bearings, and cam tensioner. In your case, was the oil pressure light coming on? If not, was the pressure sensor shot? I tried that first, but if you have debris it sounds like the red oil icon light should have been glowing bright. Too late now, just been down that trail.
Last edited by kculp; Sep 26, 2024 at 11:09 PM.
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Novice
Joined: Jun 2019
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From: Canada
Motor removal
The book says transmission removed as well it looks like I can pull just the motor without touching the rear or transmission of the bike..probably just remove oil bag for flushing. from the mesument I got seem like a 96ci kit and the heads are definitely not stock they cut out the rocker boxs for bigger screaming Beagle spring clearance. I think I will have to replace crank hope the harely cranks can hold up the owner probably won't want to spend the big money for a darkhorse with the Shipping costs and the Canadian exchange rate .now I just need to check the stroke and verify it's not stock stroke
HDF Community Team
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,774
Likes: 2,606
From: san antonio
It has been a while since I sent a lower unit to Darkhorse to recondition a crank but the last time I did, Darkhorse split the cases, pulled the crank, trued/balanced/welded the crank, replaced both main bearings, re-assembled the lower unit for about $1100. I don't see why you cannot do the same but the price may have increased in the last few years with inflation and supply chain issues. If the OEM crank is replace with another OEM crank, the same thing could happen again. At least give them a call.
Replacing with an S&S crank is also a possibility but the cost of the crank alone will be about the same as Darkhorse reconditioning plus shipping. IIRC, shipping the last one I did from San Antonio to Darkhorse was about $75. You will have to build a shipping container for the lower unit.
Replacing with an S&S crank is also a possibility but the cost of the crank alone will be about the same as Darkhorse reconditioning plus shipping. IIRC, shipping the last one I did from San Antonio to Darkhorse was about $75. You will have to build a shipping container for the lower unit.
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Road Captain
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 575
Likes: 190
From: USA
Call DH and ask them to ship you a box with all the packing. Just drop your engine inside and ship back. They will use the same box to get it back to you anyway so you pay for it up front.
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