Counterbalancers
Thread Starter
|
Banned
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,706
Likes: 7
From: Woodstock, Ont , Can
Counterbalancers
On the most part these units seem to give little problems. One thing that did come to mind was that in constant rpms there is little strain on the sprockets and chain. Most of the time I don't crack the throttle for downshifting to 5th 4th and 3rd as they seem to drop in nicely anyway. For 2nd and especially 1st I do crack and downshift for a soother result. Will this shorten the life of the balancer sprockets and chain, in particular the sprocket on the crank?
Ron
Ron
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 842
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Counterbalancers
My understanding is that the counter balancers are fine until the engine is built up and the rev limit changed. At higher rpm's, like wot racing,eg,drag race,they are likely to fail. I'm curious to hear what our more knowlegeable members have to say.
Road Captain
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 609
Likes: 0
From: Sunny Sedona AZ
RE: Counterbalancers
If you can imagine a half a beer can sliced top to bottom then filled up wih lead. Mount roller bearings on the end and then spin it!
The pressure on the bearings goes up in a very steep curve. The following numbers are for ilustrative puposses only.
The pressure on the bearings @ 2k rpm is equal to 2, @ 4krpm is equal to 6 @ 6krpm is equal to 12 and any thing higher is equal to boom! Hence the rev limiter.
Before any body gets real technical the preceeding was juat an example to make a point. So to make H.P. in a counter balanced motor you make it bigger a non counter balanced motor can be made to spin faster and produce more H.P. just by virtue of higher RPM.
The pressure on the bearings goes up in a very steep curve. The following numbers are for ilustrative puposses only.
The pressure on the bearings @ 2k rpm is equal to 2, @ 4krpm is equal to 6 @ 6krpm is equal to 12 and any thing higher is equal to boom! Hence the rev limiter.
Before any body gets real technical the preceeding was juat an example to make a point. So to make H.P. in a counter balanced motor you make it bigger a non counter balanced motor can be made to spin faster and produce more H.P. just by virtue of higher RPM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,727
Likes: 2
From: North Carolina
RE: Counterbalancers
I'm not a big fan of the counterbalanced engine in a Harley or anything else. I've had several Porsche 951's (944 turbos) that use a counterbalanced motor. They tended to have a resonance vibration at certain rpms , and I've noticed my Harley has it too, especially since I changed bars; it seems the new bars have ampified it to my hands a bit more. I rode a bud's SE110 Electra Glide a couple of weeks ago and while it did vibrate pretty hard at idle, it was much smoother than my softail under throttle. It seems the softails vibrate more as you twist the throttle; the harder you get on it, the more it vibrates. I don't know whythe MoCo doesn't go ahead and make a common motor for all it's big twin models.
Road Captain
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 609
Likes: 0
From: Sunny Sedona AZ
RE: Counterbalancers
First a non counter balanced motor rigidly mounted would vibrate the livin sh*t out of you and there is no room in the softtail frame to put in a rubber mount. Secondly you can install neoprene riser mounting washers (available from HD) to reduce vibration in your bars.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,068
Likes: 1,473
From: Texas! Ya mean there's someplace else?
RE: Counterbalancers
ORIGINAL: rockerhead
First a non counter balanced motor rigidly mounted would vibrate the livin sh*t out of you and there is no room in the softtail frame to put in a rubber mount. Secondly you can install neoprene riser mounting washers (available from HD) to reduce vibration in your bars.
First a non counter balanced motor rigidly mounted would vibrate the livin sh*t out of you and there is no room in the softtail frame to put in a rubber mount. Secondly you can install neoprene riser mounting washers (available from HD) to reduce vibration in your bars.
I wonder if there is an upper limit to the weight that can be hung off the transmission? A Softail's swingarm is considerably heavier than a Dyna or barge swingarm.
Thread Starter
|
Banned
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,706
Likes: 7
From: Woodstock, Ont , Can
RE: Counterbalancers
mojojones: Trust me, my last bikes were knuckles and pans. These counter balancers are wonderful. Agreed, they won't cover the whole rpm range but within normal highway speeds it's a comfy ride.
rockerhead: Understand how they work and the rpm limits to keep them from grenading, but I was working a different angle. Cam chains for example are fairly lightly loaded once the engine starts as the time frame between opening and closing spaces is quite short. The balancer chain, and sprockets are again lightly loaded at a constant rpm but see the most load on the drive components with rapid throttle response and decel. The weights themselves create the resistance to motion. In your opinion, will cracking the throttle needlessly like we all do downshifting have a negitive effect on the life span of the sprockets and chain due to the rapid load imposed on the weights or is it a none issue? What brought all this up was I was looking in the service manual at the setup and by the picture, the crank sprocket has very few teeth in contact with the chain and would seem to be the weak link. It's one of those, shouldn't last but seem to give little problems things.
Ron
rockerhead: Understand how they work and the rpm limits to keep them from grenading, but I was working a different angle. Cam chains for example are fairly lightly loaded once the engine starts as the time frame between opening and closing spaces is quite short. The balancer chain, and sprockets are again lightly loaded at a constant rpm but see the most load on the drive components with rapid throttle response and decel. The weights themselves create the resistance to motion. In your opinion, will cracking the throttle needlessly like we all do downshifting have a negitive effect on the life span of the sprockets and chain due to the rapid load imposed on the weights or is it a none issue? What brought all this up was I was looking in the service manual at the setup and by the picture, the crank sprocket has very few teeth in contact with the chain and would seem to be the weak link. It's one of those, shouldn't last but seem to give little problems things.
Ron
Trending Topics
Road Captain
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 609
Likes: 0
From: Sunny Sedona AZ
RE: Counterbalancers
Well it seems that the moco felt that going to a roller chain in 07 would reduce the wear index as there is a larger contact area over a regular chain. However the "b" motor has been around long enouh to not be really affected by throttle blipping, so rev her up!
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Thread Starter
|
Banned
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,706
Likes: 7
From: Woodstock, Ont , Can
RE: Counterbalancers
Thanks rockerhead. I agree the roller chain is a better choice for both balancer and cams as well and hydraulic tensioners. I will continue to do what feels good and trust the design. Like you said, it's been around for a long time with few problems.
Ron
Ron
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
