Is Thundermax worth the extra $$$ for a Stage 1?
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,592
Likes: 6
From: Florida
The SERT is a good system, but if you can't afford to do all of your engine mods you want to do at once, it quickly gets expensive with retunes. I liked my PCIII on my 05 but I didn't want to ditch the o2's on my 07 so I went the other direction which was this TMax w/autotune and WB o2s. I was one of the early buyers. I couldn't get much feedback on it because not too many people took the plunge. The upside of me taking the plunge (besides that it worked for me) is I got it for $630 complete w/autotune. I have a funny feeling that something is up with the o2 sensors. I say that because you changed the map and it runs good and then tunes itself bad. Hell, I'm by far no expert and I would hope that either Zipper's or Fuel Moto could help you out.
It might be worth your time to pull the o2's and test them. Here is a video showing how to do that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXPdhai_5iE
It might be worth your time to pull the o2's and test them. Here is a video showing how to do that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXPdhai_5iE
Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 201
Likes: 1
From:
The PCIII also works well and it is tunable. Dyno Jet also just released the PCV with an auto tune option. It is about 1/2 the size of the PCIII. You might want to check that out. Presently it is only for '09 model ECMs.
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 185
Likes: 22
From: Illinois
"IF" you mess with the intake in any way you "WILL" have to do something about the ECM map.
That being said most of the tuners mentioned above will do an acceptable job.
If you don't have any plans for future engine upgrades like cams, head work or bigger cylinder/pistons a TMax w/Autotune or a TTS is probably a bit like using a sledge hammer to sway a fly, its overkill.
For the average rider who has no plans for internal engine upgrades and just wants to cool his engine while getting a bit more performance with a stage 1 kit. I would suggest you go with a PC III. Its relatively easy to tune, in fact many of the dealer shops have dyno's that will plug directly into the PC III and program it on the fly.
The SERT is also a good way to go, but its slightly handicapped in that when they dyno it the operator has to do a run, modify the map and load it, then do it again until its right. So it takes a bit longer. If it has a big advantage its that it isn't an add on piece like the PC III and it will allow you to modify nearly every possible parameter in the ECM's mapping program.
The only real down side to both of them is that once tuned nothing changes. If you do anything or something changes inside the engine you have to go through the entire dyno process and expense again.
Now if your at all interested in future engine upgrades then the TMax and the TTL may be a better option. I have a TMax w/Autotune in my bike and like the way that it self adjusts to maintain the proper AF ratio over the full rpm range even if the map I put in isn't exactly right. Even though I don't have any immediate plans for major internal engine work. I like to keep my options open. Besides I got mine for only a little more than the cost of a SERT, and that was just too good a deal to pass up.
That being said most of the tuners mentioned above will do an acceptable job.
If you don't have any plans for future engine upgrades like cams, head work or bigger cylinder/pistons a TMax w/Autotune or a TTS is probably a bit like using a sledge hammer to sway a fly, its overkill.
For the average rider who has no plans for internal engine upgrades and just wants to cool his engine while getting a bit more performance with a stage 1 kit. I would suggest you go with a PC III. Its relatively easy to tune, in fact many of the dealer shops have dyno's that will plug directly into the PC III and program it on the fly.
The SERT is also a good way to go, but its slightly handicapped in that when they dyno it the operator has to do a run, modify the map and load it, then do it again until its right. So it takes a bit longer. If it has a big advantage its that it isn't an add on piece like the PC III and it will allow you to modify nearly every possible parameter in the ECM's mapping program.
The only real down side to both of them is that once tuned nothing changes. If you do anything or something changes inside the engine you have to go through the entire dyno process and expense again.
Now if your at all interested in future engine upgrades then the TMax and the TTL may be a better option. I have a TMax w/Autotune in my bike and like the way that it self adjusts to maintain the proper AF ratio over the full rpm range even if the map I put in isn't exactly right. Even though I don't have any immediate plans for major internal engine work. I like to keep my options open. Besides I got mine for only a little more than the cost of a SERT, and that was just too good a deal to pass up.
Thanks
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,984
Likes: 8
You are asking in a thread that is about 3 years old. I would start a new thread. I would ask Drew from DR. VTwin he is a site sponsor. I think he has a pretty good price.
I paid $500 for mine, from a guy that bought it and then never installed it. Basically with the warranty. Used, they are between $300-$350. I think new you can find them for a little under $700.
When you talk to Zippers, some of the guys are really cool, others are dicks. If you get a dick, hang up and call back.
Good Luck.
I paid $500 for mine, from a guy that bought it and then never installed it. Basically with the warranty. Used, they are between $300-$350. I think new you can find them for a little under $700.
When you talk to Zippers, some of the guys are really cool, others are dicks. If you get a dick, hang up and call back.
Good Luck.
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 185
Likes: 22
From: Illinois
Yeah I know it's an old thread. Did not realize it until I looked after I posted. But thanks for the info. Plan on calling Zippers Monday.
PS...your Avitar kicks ***!
May our Moderator Rest in Peace
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,386
Likes: 35
From: Rochester, NY
I think they had around 10 of them in stock at the time and sold every one of them at their cost within a couple of hours after someone posted a message about it here.
As for where to get one now, your guess is as good as mine.
But try looking around, you might be able to find a used one on evil-bay for a good price.
You might also look into the newest Power Comander, the "V" version is supposed to use wide band O2 sensors to 'auto tune' itself.
Its not a complete replacement system like the T-Max, but it may be the next best option out there for the money.
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 185
Likes: 22
From: Illinois
I got it from a place that was dumping them because Zippers wanted them to keep the price the same as everyone else and they refused to go along with the crowd.
I think they had around 10 of them in stock at the time and sold every one of them at their cost within a couple of hours after someone posted a message about it here.
As for where to get one now, your guess is as good as mine.
But try looking around, you might be able to find a used one on evil-bay for a good price.
You might also look into the newest Power Comander, the "V" version is supposed to use wide band O2 sensors to 'auto tune' itself.
Its not a complete replacement system like the T-Max, but it may be the next best option out there for the money.
I think they had around 10 of them in stock at the time and sold every one of them at their cost within a couple of hours after someone posted a message about it here.
As for where to get one now, your guess is as good as mine.
But try looking around, you might be able to find a used one on evil-bay for a good price.
You might also look into the newest Power Comander, the "V" version is supposed to use wide band O2 sensors to 'auto tune' itself.
Its not a complete replacement system like the T-Max, but it may be the next best option out there for the money.
Yeah I will not be using the PCV. I had a III on a sled and it got so hot it turned to goo on the trail in -12 weather. I froze my *** off ripping the sled apart to get it ripped out of the sled so I could get home. Plus I have just read too many problems here and on the sledding forums I go to. I don't like the piggyback, and the auto tune is not like the T-max. I would rather spend the extra bux on the T-max from everything I have read about it and all the tuners I talk too.
May our Moderator Rest in Peace
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,386
Likes: 35
From: Rochester, NY
I have never been a big fan of anything that 'piggybacks' onto an existing system.
It always seems like some kind of band-aide solution to me.
I would rather spend the extra bucks to get a complete system that is designed for the job so I know I'm not introducing new ways to screw things up.
It always seems like some kind of band-aide solution to me.
I would rather spend the extra bucks to get a complete system that is designed for the job so I know I'm not introducing new ways to screw things up.
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
