Anyone swapped their stock shocks for Progressive?
1st Gear
Joined: May 2009
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After reading all the posts on Progressive shocks, we ordered a set of 412's a week ago Monday - they arrived 2 days later. Only took 1 hour to install including clean up and a test ride. Went with ones that are 1 inch longer than the stock shocks. Much nicer ride both solo and 2 up.
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Tourer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 330
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From: Columbus, OH
thanks for the input folks,
As I mentioned in the OP, I really LIKE the stock setup on my Custom. I only asked since the Progressive upgrade made such a difference on my wife's Sporty, how would they work for the ST...
good info. really appreciate it...
As I mentioned in the OP, I really LIKE the stock setup on my Custom. I only asked since the Progressive upgrade made such a difference on my wife's Sporty, how would they work for the ST...
good info. really appreciate it...
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,035
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From: near Buffalo, NY
Other than on anonymous internet forums, I've never heard anyone speak highly of any air suspension. I've ridden a few bikes with it, and I'd agree with the criticism. I know several people who either have them or had them. They all have some version of the same story....It's awesome to be able to adjust the ride height at will, but for anything other than barhopping the ride is awful. Now I understand that these are Softails, and they're never gonna ride like a touring bike or corner like a sports bike due to the rear suspension geometry.
The Shotgun Shock is intriguing, but I've heard exactly one good review of them from someone I don't know. I do know that it won't correct the inherent issues with Softail rear suspension. I also know that I'm not going to pay $1,600 to do their Beta testing.
Bottom line is that an air suspension is going to give you the dampening of air rather than a fluid or a spring (or a combination of both). I know which I prefer.
If you're happy with the stock shocks and bolts, then it'd be silly to spend money to fix something that isn't broken.
The Shotgun Shock is intriguing, but I've heard exactly one good review of them from someone I don't know. I do know that it won't correct the inherent issues with Softail rear suspension. I also know that I'm not going to pay $1,600 to do their Beta testing.
Bottom line is that an air suspension is going to give you the dampening of air rather than a fluid or a spring (or a combination of both). I know which I prefer.
If you're happy with the stock shocks and bolts, then it'd be silly to spend money to fix something that isn't broken.
I'm not sure how you can render any opinion of a certain type of damping if you haven't tried it yourself.
I am one who doesn't mind spending money on a product that is engineered correctly.
The Shotgun shock design will be the suspension of choice in the coming years because it is the only design that inflates and dampens with air on both sides of the barrel. It totally fixes any inherent design problems of a Softail that you can not fix with a gas or hydralic shock. The ride can be set to "Magic Carpet", which wasn't even imaginable with my old Progressives.
I have no connection with Shotgun, or anybody else, I'm just lucky enough to not to worry about what I spend on my bike. I took a chance on J.D., and it's just a matter of time before his patented design starts catching on to those who don't need to hold someone elses hand to make their own decisions on what works.
If you rode my bike for one minute, you would totally agree with my assessments that the Progressives are not only a 1% difference maker at best, but that a real quality ride along with incredible handling is available with a flip of one of the switches through Shotgun .
My intentions are to tell the poster to not waste money on Progressive Softail shocks. I would either do the bolts if money is an issue, or save for the air ride.
I can tell you one more thing, two up riding on a lowered Softail is not a sweet ride. If your doll likes to ride, air ride will make her very happy.
Last edited by George C; Jun 11, 2009 at 06:37 AM.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
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From: 'Noke, VA
Again George, I say this with all due respect, but...
You've been telling people how wonderful the Shotgun was for months before you actually rode the bike. I think if I'd dropped the kind of coin you did, I'd be predisposed to justify it as well.
Now, in the post of mine you quoted, I mentioned that I had ridden bikes with air suspension, and I don't care for it. I can also tell you that your Shotgun doesn't do a thing to address the basic design issue with Softail rear suspension; namely that the shocks are going the wrong direction. Softails were designed for looks, not comfort. You can make it better, but there's only so far you can go.
I'd also point out that even the high-end auto manufacturers that use air suspension in their cars use some sort of spring or strut to supplement the air, and they generally use a system which varies the air pressure based on load (either a semi- or full-adaptive system).
I'm sure you're happy with your Shotgun, and I'll admit that it's an interesting system. There are also plenty of people who will probably chime in with how happy they are with their SAS, Arnott, Bleed-Feed, and Platinum, and that's great too.
A lot of people, including me, are very happy with the Progressives. They're half the price of a cheap air suspension, and a quarter of the price of the Shotgun. To my butt (which is really all I care about), the Progressives are substantially better than any air suspension can be.
You've been telling people how wonderful the Shotgun was for months before you actually rode the bike. I think if I'd dropped the kind of coin you did, I'd be predisposed to justify it as well.
Now, in the post of mine you quoted, I mentioned that I had ridden bikes with air suspension, and I don't care for it. I can also tell you that your Shotgun doesn't do a thing to address the basic design issue with Softail rear suspension; namely that the shocks are going the wrong direction. Softails were designed for looks, not comfort. You can make it better, but there's only so far you can go.
I'd also point out that even the high-end auto manufacturers that use air suspension in their cars use some sort of spring or strut to supplement the air, and they generally use a system which varies the air pressure based on load (either a semi- or full-adaptive system).
I'm sure you're happy with your Shotgun, and I'll admit that it's an interesting system. There are also plenty of people who will probably chime in with how happy they are with their SAS, Arnott, Bleed-Feed, and Platinum, and that's great too.
A lot of people, including me, are very happy with the Progressives. They're half the price of a cheap air suspension, and a quarter of the price of the Shotgun. To my butt (which is really all I care about), the Progressives are substantially better than any air suspension can be.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: near Buffalo, NY
Don't be so sure.
What the Shotgun does is what you say it doesn't, and thats addressing the reverse style input of the Softail shock. When you can inflate both sides instead of one, set the damping with air instead of a preset hydralic valve, and adjust rebound with air instead of a very small and inefficient hard steel spring, you can take ride and handling to a level that you can't imagine.
I can ramble on all day and not change anyones mind. I'm not trying to ram my opinions down someone elses throat because sometimes, I mean ALL the time is works in reverse, but in this case it's a big enough difference to justify myself sounding like an a-hole. I'm also just a little different when it comes to trying things. If I like the design, and if it makes sense, I'll try anything. My new Ford diesel puts out almost 600 horses to the rear wheels, along with 1,195 lbs of torque as a beta tester for a very sharp tuner. It may cost me my warranty, but the truck is an animal and it was well worth it for me.
If you are ever in my area, I will gladly toss you the keys to the bike for an afternoon so you can make that judgement for yourself.
What the Shotgun does is what you say it doesn't, and thats addressing the reverse style input of the Softail shock. When you can inflate both sides instead of one, set the damping with air instead of a preset hydralic valve, and adjust rebound with air instead of a very small and inefficient hard steel spring, you can take ride and handling to a level that you can't imagine.
I can ramble on all day and not change anyones mind. I'm not trying to ram my opinions down someone elses throat because sometimes, I mean ALL the time is works in reverse, but in this case it's a big enough difference to justify myself sounding like an a-hole. I'm also just a little different when it comes to trying things. If I like the design, and if it makes sense, I'll try anything. My new Ford diesel puts out almost 600 horses to the rear wheels, along with 1,195 lbs of torque as a beta tester for a very sharp tuner. It may cost me my warranty, but the truck is an animal and it was well worth it for me.
If you are ever in my area, I will gladly toss you the keys to the bike for an afternoon so you can make that judgement for yourself.
Last edited by George C; Jun 11, 2009 at 02:46 PM.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,439
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From: 'Noke, VA
George, it's the same system as the Bleed-Feed; it uses opposing air pressure to control ride height and dampening. You pump one side up to adjust ride height, then you pump up the other side to control the dampening. That's nothing new. The only thing remotely revolutionary about it is the housing and the onboard compressor. It does nothing to address the Softail's weak suspension geometry, as it aligns the shock in the exact stock way. They're still parallel to the bottom of the swingarm, that doesn't change.
Like I said, your bike, your money, but just because it's the most expensive system out there doesn't mean it's the best. There's a lot of really good reasons that no race vehicles (motorcycles or cars) use air suspension, with the exception of some drag racers.
I will say this though, if I had a Road King or a 'Glide for my long rides, and just used my 'Train for showing of, I would probably end up with the Shotgun over any other system, simply because it's virtually leakproof, and it would allow me the ability to slam the bike when it was parked.
Like I said, your bike, your money, but just because it's the most expensive system out there doesn't mean it's the best. There's a lot of really good reasons that no race vehicles (motorcycles or cars) use air suspension, with the exception of some drag racers.
I will say this though, if I had a Road King or a 'Glide for my long rides, and just used my 'Train for showing of, I would probably end up with the Shotgun over any other system, simply because it's virtually leakproof, and it would allow me the ability to slam the bike when it was parked.
Last edited by '05Train; Jun 11, 2009 at 04:24 PM.
Tourer
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 284
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From: Verona, WI.
This thread is evolving into air ride.....y/n
My experience with the stock softail shocks vs Progressives really has to do with whether you are choosing to lower the bike. I first used stock shocks with bolts and lowered 2 inches. Look cool but ride was like a hardtail. This year I put on Progressives and lowered it about an inch and it gave a great ride. Preload is an option as well based on your weight or how much 2 up riding you do. The 422's have made a big difference for me and it didn't cost me $1200, found them on Ebay new in the box for $350.
My experience with the stock softail shocks vs Progressives really has to do with whether you are choosing to lower the bike. I first used stock shocks with bolts and lowered 2 inches. Look cool but ride was like a hardtail. This year I put on Progressives and lowered it about an inch and it gave a great ride. Preload is an option as well based on your weight or how much 2 up riding you do. The 422's have made a big difference for me and it didn't cost me $1200, found them on Ebay new in the box for $350.
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Joe Kucinski
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: near Buffalo, NY
You are not comparing apples to apples.
1" Progressive drop compared to 2" stock w bolts.
Now, if you lower those Progressives 2" like you did with the stock shocks w/ bolts, you'll find the ride just as bad, and the travel severly limited as well. You will have no choice but to stiffen up the pre-load, which will kill off the rest of the ride.
If you look at the posters question, he want's a direct comparison between stockers w/ bolts and Progressives. There is no noticeable difference at all.
1" Progressive drop compared to 2" stock w bolts.
Now, if you lower those Progressives 2" like you did with the stock shocks w/ bolts, you'll find the ride just as bad, and the travel severly limited as well. You will have no choice but to stiffen up the pre-load, which will kill off the rest of the ride.
If you look at the posters question, he want's a direct comparison between stockers w/ bolts and Progressives. There is no noticeable difference at all.
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Tourer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 330
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From: Columbus, OH
think I'll keep the OEM's. seems like the Progressive route is primarily for lowering. I have NO interest in doing that at all. I like tearing up the twisties way too much to start scraping pegs with a lowered bike.
I think the ride of my Custom is fantastic as is, was just wondering if there was something better out there. this is my first HD, so I have no other shock system to compare it to...
thanks.
I think the ride of my Custom is fantastic as is, was just wondering if there was something better out there. this is my first HD, so I have no other shock system to compare it to...
thanks.