I did a search but found nothing that really helped,so heres what Im looking to do. I have hooker long pipes (very similar to v&h longshots). I want more/better/deeper sound and new pipes arent in the cards right now. so I was thinking of removing the baffles and adding a set of torque cones. will the torque cones provide enough backpressure without the baffles?

 

I'm no engine guy but I put cones in my drags on my fat boy in 1993 but I'm thinking with todays ECM's and such that cones arent going to duplicate the back pressure you had with baffels. JMO



Also if I remember correctly.....the cones (Back then) advertized to keep the back WAVES from going back into your engine or some stuff like that....I dont remember cones being advertized to increase back pressure.....

 

Experimentation is the only way to find out, but there is a good chance they will help in your situation. Will they help enough? You have to try them to find out.

You will get lots of posts telling you to get the right pipe instead, but obviously that's not in your finances right now. I would try them.

 

I had torque cones in my Samson,Rip Saws and my Fat Boy ran great.
Rip Saws are drag pipes and come without baffles.
The Rip Saws were 1-3/4 OD. If your pipes are bigger in diameter, you will lose too much back pressure, if you remove your baffles.
There are a lot of aftermarket baffles that you could put in.
Tom

 

I was thinking of thumbscrews through the existing holes where the baffles bolt in. thats pretty much the same as the thunder monster baffles. I think....

 

finances really isnt the issue,my ol lady is. Ive gone through 3 sets of pipes in 2 years. if I dont get 2/3 years outta these someone might get hurt :-)

 

Somebody has to keep you in check. LOL Too many pipes!

 

Wrote this up years ago. It still applies, but with the usual differences that need noted between carbed bikes and FI bikes. I've attached a shot of a lollipop and another of a home-made torque cone. The physics of the lollipop is simply increased back pressure, same as normal baffles. The physics of the torque cones is pretty much the same. Both these cause a pressure drop across them as the exhaust gases flow through/past them. That means there is a lower pressure area after the device. Since flow is always from a higher to a lower pressure region, exhaust gases can not flow back up the pipe under normal circumstances. That's the simple version - pipe length, diameter, number of bends, shape of bends, internal surface, temperature of exhaust gases, heat dissipation, etc. all figure in. For normal riding where you aren't concerned about the last .001 horsepower/torque, most of that stuff doesn't really matter.


Drag pipes are “cool”, at least in the minds of some of us. They are the simplest of exhaust systems and so appeal to the minimalist in us. But if you think using drag pipes will give you increased horsepower, you’ve got another think coming. If, after knowing the pipes aren’t the best for performance, you still want to use them, there is something you can do to get better low and mid range torque (power). Even after making these mods, engine power will still not be as good as an engine using a good 2 into 1 or 2 into 2 exhaust system, but it will be a more tractable ride than running straight drag pipes.

Since most folks first think of installing drag pipes to get that LOUD sound and then think of performance, they’re often disappointed when they ride their newly equipped bike. Yeah, it sounds sweet once you get the idle jet properly sized, and are standing alongside blipping the throttle, and watching the flames shoot out the end of the pipes. But simply installing drag pipes and rejetting the carb won’t make for a tractable ride. Someone new to riding often thinks that reducing back pressure in the exhaust will result in more power. ‘Tain’t so! Several reputable shops have dyno’d bikes with correctly jetted carbs and drag pipes and saw a significant power loss.

Since most of us operate our engines in the low-to-mid RPM range we seldom use the drag pipes in the region where they operate most efficiently - flat-out wide open throttle! Yep, they’ll make more HP up there than other pipes. Doesn’t do you any good driving around town or heading to a rally in Timbuktu, several states away. I’m not going into the physics of all this; it will suffice to say that typical street and road riders need lots of torque down low. Drag pipes don’t do this without some modifications, and as noted, even then won’t match a good header system.

If you still want to run drag pipes (hey, they are the cheapest pipes you can get!), here’s something that’ll help. It won’t make them perfect, but at least livable. To make this tunable mini-baffle scrounge a 1/4-20 x 1" thumb screw, or use a 3/4" OD washer welded to the top of a 1/4-20 x 1" screw. Next drill a slightly larger than 1/4” hole around an inch from the end of your drag pipes. Place a nut and lock washer on your new mini-baffle and slide the whole thing into the hole in your pipe, with the nut, lock washer, and thumbscrew flat or washer inside the pipe. Add another lock washer and nut to the outside, cinch it all down with the flat parallel with the length of the pipe. Of course, repeat for the other pipe!

Now comes the tuning part of all this. Start your bike, let it warm up, and then go for a ride. As you ride, notice any flat spots as you accelerate. When you notice a flat spot, and you will, stop and shut the bike down. As soon as it cools enough to mess with the mini-baffle, loosen the outside nuts, rotate the baffles to about a 15 degree angle, cinch ‘em down, and repeat your test ride. Try angles of 30, 45, 60, 75, and 90 degrees. Use the ol’ seat-of-the-pants method to decide what works best. Or if you have the bucks and access to a dynamometer, let it tell you where to leave the mini-baffles. But remember, you’re looking for torque, not horsepower.

I’ve seen this method used in drag pipes since the middle ‘70s. I stumbled upon it by accident, trying to stick something in my pipes to keep cop nightsticks from going up the pipes and getting a ticket for “no baffles.” I had tried the baffles made for drag pipes but they made my Sporty sound like frog farts. So I pulled them out and left the bolt in the pipe. I noticed the flat spot that had been there at about 3000 RPM was almost gone. I told an old HD mech about it; he laughed and said to try using thumbscrews and varying the angle, too. I didn’t have any thumbscrews, but had a friend weld a washer into the slot of a 1/4-20 fillister head screw. Worked pretty good!

Here’s another trick: For 1 3/4" pipes go to a hardware store and get 1- 1/2" to 1" copper pipe reducers used for soldering different size pipe together. (Obviously, you’ll have to use some other size reducers for other size drag pipes.) Slip the reducers inside about 4” from the end of the drag pipes, small diameter to the rear, and bolt in. They’ll still sound like drag pipes, but won’t rattle as much on deceleration. When combined with the lollipops, these are the "poor man's" Thunder Monsters.

 

I have stock pipes gutted on an 08 SG. Love the sound. Put in torque cones, the type that go in the headers right at the jug.

As expected, without the torque cones there was a lot of low end power loss. Not to mention, I could litteraly hear that the top end was noisier, even at idle.

With the torque cones, no top end noise and the power feels normal.

I'm not an expert. But when I got mine, I called the company I was getting them from and told them that I wanted no issues that would endanger my motor. They said the cones were designed to provide the proper back pressure and were made for straight through pipes. Not saying they are correct, just sharing what they told me.

 

nice write up pococj. thats exactly the type of experianced info I was needing. Im gonna try the torque cones paired with the lollipops and see how she goes. if it aint good then Ill just stick the baffles back in and call it a lesson learned. thanks for the insight.