Synthetic Oil
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,172
Likes: 7
From: Clermont, GA, CSA
I know a guy that had access to an oil analyzing machine. When he decided to switch to synthetic, he'd put 3000 miles on the dino oil in his bike. The dino oil had broken down 30%.
5000 miles later he had his synthetic oil analyzed and found it had 'broken down'
0.0001 %.
.
5000 miles later he had his synthetic oil analyzed and found it had 'broken down'
0.0001 %.
.
Last edited by Mal74; Nov 4, 2010 at 01:27 PM.
Banned
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 248
Likes: 1
Ahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!
Synthetic oil can be run from the first minute, unless a particular engine builder says not to. Why/why not? Sticking to new HDs - the stock cylinder and ring material will easily break in with synthetic, while other manufacturer's material may not break in as easily/as soon. Since HD's CVO bikes start their life with HD synthetic, the logical conclusion is that they will break in correctly, or HD would be awash with "uses too much oil" claims.
Is synthetic better than regular oil? Here's a few ways to look at this - One, yes it is because all, each, every single solitary synthetic oil molecule is identical to every other molecule. They are all "long-chain" molecules, and that is what you want your oil molecules to be. Regular oil is made of both long-chain and short-chain molecules. Without going into the chemistry/physics of that, I'll just say that the short-chains are less desirable. Two, no it isn't better - change your oil every 2500 - 3000 miles and you probably won't ever see an advantage to running synthetic. Three, yes it is better because most synthetics will stand up to higher temperatures before breaking down. Live in a hot climate and do parades? Use synthetic for peace of mind. But then if you do a parade in Phoenix in August and go home and change your oil, you probably won't care!
The old saw about oil not wearing out is something I find a bit unpalatable. While it is true that the biggest reason an oil is no longer serviceable is due to combustion product contamination, it is also true that as oil passes through the gear train of an engine (and even more so through a transmission) the molecules are literally ripped apart, cut up by the gears and other shearing surfaces. That is why the viscosity starts dropping immediately after you start the bike. So, oil does indeed wear out, which is another reason synthetic is superior to regular oil. The regular oil has those short-chain molecules to start with, while the synthetic has all long-chain, and so it takes longer for the viscosity to drop with the synthetic.
Synthetic oil can be run from the first minute, unless a particular engine builder says not to. Why/why not? Sticking to new HDs - the stock cylinder and ring material will easily break in with synthetic, while other manufacturer's material may not break in as easily/as soon. Since HD's CVO bikes start their life with HD synthetic, the logical conclusion is that they will break in correctly, or HD would be awash with "uses too much oil" claims.
Is synthetic better than regular oil? Here's a few ways to look at this - One, yes it is because all, each, every single solitary synthetic oil molecule is identical to every other molecule. They are all "long-chain" molecules, and that is what you want your oil molecules to be. Regular oil is made of both long-chain and short-chain molecules. Without going into the chemistry/physics of that, I'll just say that the short-chains are less desirable. Two, no it isn't better - change your oil every 2500 - 3000 miles and you probably won't ever see an advantage to running synthetic. Three, yes it is better because most synthetics will stand up to higher temperatures before breaking down. Live in a hot climate and do parades? Use synthetic for peace of mind. But then if you do a parade in Phoenix in August and go home and change your oil, you probably won't care!
The old saw about oil not wearing out is something I find a bit unpalatable. While it is true that the biggest reason an oil is no longer serviceable is due to combustion product contamination, it is also true that as oil passes through the gear train of an engine (and even more so through a transmission) the molecules are literally ripped apart, cut up by the gears and other shearing surfaces. That is why the viscosity starts dropping immediately after you start the bike. So, oil does indeed wear out, which is another reason synthetic is superior to regular oil. The regular oil has those short-chain molecules to start with, while the synthetic has all long-chain, and so it takes longer for the viscosity to drop with the synthetic.
Tourer
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 404
Likes: 0
From: L.A. (Lower Alabama)
Lotsa stuff comes from the factory with high end synthetics, Porsche, Corvette, etc. Doesnt seem to affect their break-in. I bought mine used with no idea what was in it, but I use Amsoil with 20% Lucas now. My tensioners look good, runs cool, sounds nice, low valve noise, 48mpg, no oil consumption between changes (5000).
Road Captain
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 552
Likes: 1
From: las vegas nv
Synthetic debate
As one poster said most high performance cars use synthetic from the gitgo. I use it here in Las Vegas because of the heat. Interesting point though, when I moved here from PA with an 01 RK with 15000 miles I asked the serive advisor about switching to synthetic oil. And was told not a good idea because the synthetic might cause a problem with the seals due to the milage on the bike. Also, it is not recommended to "extend" your milage between changes with syn oil, you should change as often as you would with dino oil. Just thought I would throw my $.02 into the debate. LOL
Tourer
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 404
Likes: 0
From: L.A. (Lower Alabama)
None of the big truck companies change on miles anymore, they sample and change on condition. I used to drive conservatively and once got 46k on one change. And when you are changing 6-10 gallons in 9000 trucks, theres some good economic sense there. But my paltry 6 qts every 5000 isnt going to break the bank, so I figure 1-Use synthetic, 2- buy a cooler, cause 20 degrees less will extend the time till breakdown, and 3-dont drive like a nut. HD used to use that "too slippery so your bearings skidded" crap to avoid doing warranty repairs. It is true that some of the really high rpm motors out there have switched to ceramic rollers in their bearings to prevent skidding, but that's due to rotational inertia and not the oil. All that said, I used Mobil One in my Dodge pickup from 1500 miles till it blew up at 67000. Best treatment, religious maintenance, and bleewie! So maybe I shouldnt speak so highly of Synthetics. Or Dodge.
when i bought my bike it had conventional oil in it,,, waited till 1k and went to syn3 , last year i did the big bore and s&s recomended mobil 1 even in the break in period, 2k miles later no issues,
Last edited by 07 dyna man; Jun 13, 2010 at 01:49 PM.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,186
Likes: 6
From: Gray's Creek NC
I don't buy into the synthetic oil thing at all...I think it is all BS to get people to buy an overpriced product. There are two kinds of oil...clean and dirty...if you keep clean oil in a motor, if will run virtually forever. Oil does not wear out, it gets contaminated with combustion byproducts. Leaving a "better" oil in a motor for a longer period of time,(as all synthetic oil manufacturers recommend) will not make your motor last longer. Synthetic oil becomes contaminated just as fast as regular oil, and starts wearing out your motor. Your money would be better spent on more oil changes. I am an oil change fanatic... religiously at 3000...2500 is even better. I have a 26 year old Harley, 25 year old motor home, 22 year old lawn tractor, all have the original motors that have not be rebuilt and run like new.
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,710
Likes: 6
From: Spokane, WA.
When I had the bike bike at a 96 c.i. I changed at 500 miles and again at 1K with dino oil, waited until about 2,500 and went synthetic and then with the 103 build went 50 miles dino then changed and went dino for another 950 miles, then went synthetic Amsoil.
If you want real good clean oil, use the "scavenger" on your oil changes to get the dirty oil out of the system that remains..... This was great until I changes from V&H BSS to D&D fatcat and now the oil line to teh bag does not have enough clearance to get it off, to use the scavenger I have.
If you want real good clean oil, use the "scavenger" on your oil changes to get the dirty oil out of the system that remains..... This was great until I changes from V&H BSS to D&D fatcat and now the oil line to teh bag does not have enough clearance to get it off, to use the scavenger I have.
Road Master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,031
Likes: 4
From:
Use whatever oil makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, it makes no difference at all. You will not find any threads here or elsewhere from people that change their oil regularly having any oil related failures.