Stage One and What?
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Road Master
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,086
Likes: 2
Stage One and What?
Okay, first let me repeat what I seem to so often, I am not all that mechanically inclined, so some terms still throw me off a little.
Eventually, I plan on completing a Stage One install with a free flowing A/C and exhaust, with SERT and DynoTune.
However, I almost feel that simply doing the air filter and exhaust doesn't seem to justify the rigors of undergoing the dynotune. In other words, I lot of work for negligable difference in performance (seemingly). So, staying mainly stock, what else should I try to include in this mod? I now there is something regarding cams and what-not, but I also do not what to do a whole engine rebuild. I am quite content with my 96, not to go to a 103.
Advice, pointers, and possible clarifiers are appreciated!
Thank you!
-I'm still learning...
Eventually, I plan on completing a Stage One install with a free flowing A/C and exhaust, with SERT and DynoTune.
However, I almost feel that simply doing the air filter and exhaust doesn't seem to justify the rigors of undergoing the dynotune. In other words, I lot of work for negligable difference in performance (seemingly). So, staying mainly stock, what else should I try to include in this mod? I now there is something regarding cams and what-not, but I also do not what to do a whole engine rebuild. I am quite content with my 96, not to go to a 103.
Advice, pointers, and possible clarifiers are appreciated!
Thank you!
-I'm still learning...
Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 717
Likes: 1
From: Drexel Hill, Pa
Do a search on here and you'll learn alot on this. But, for a quick re-cap: If you do a pipe and A/C change you WILL need some sort change to the fuel programing. If you don't want to spend the money on a dyno tune you could just use a pre-downloaded map like alot of people do. You could also go to the dealer and have your ECM flashed. If you want more power still and have an extra 8 or 9 hundred to spend, you could throw in a set of cams with a custom dyno tune.
Thread Starter
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Road Master
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,086
Likes: 2
Thanks! I have test-ridden several bikes that have done the Stage One, and I really can't tell much difference in the performance category from my (basically) stock bike. Supposedly, the bike should run cooler, but I didn't ride the Stage One bikes long enough to compare notes.
It just seems to me that if I'm going to go through the trouble of it all, I better come out with some performance. So, cams or something would need to be changed out.
Thanks, again!
(I know, this is a noob question...sorry.)
It just seems to me that if I'm going to go through the trouble of it all, I better come out with some performance. So, cams or something would need to be changed out.
Thanks, again!
(I know, this is a noob question...sorry.)
Advanced
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: Alabama
From my understanding, a new bike comes from the factory STARVING for air to meet EPA, emision regs, etc. To get the HD thunder sound, you need new pipes. To get more exhaust out you must get more air in, theres where the new A/C system comes in. Now Ive heard the newer bikes with an O2 sensors would most likely compensate for these two changes but it would push the limits on your fuel/air mix, so there is where the re-mapping of the EFI comes in. This is a Stage 1 up grade. You should get about 4-5 more HP. Not much performance but you'll get the rumble.
Tourer
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 434
Likes: 0
From: Ringgold, GA
Ive rode a lot of diff bikes with diff mods, if you wanted more other than the stage one, I would probably do some cams and have the dyno done from a good place. Maybe some S&S 510g cams would give you a good gain for the money
Road Warrior
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,620
Likes: 0
From: Irvine, Orange County, Ca
You should get maybe 10-15% more pony's from the stage one with a good air cleaner. Why it's needed is to fix the epa lean settings and let more air in and that will cool off the engine. Trust me...you'll notice it on a long ride on a hot day. If you don't want to do any furure mods, just get a V&H FuelPak (< $300). It's plug and play and can be moved to a new bike in the future. The HD download is more specific to bikes running the SE pipes and air. But it would work and it is cheap.
Last edited by jbg; Jun 25, 2010 at 04:06 PM.
Tourer
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 469
Likes: 0
From: Las Vegas, NV
Dont worry bro. I think we have ALL asked the same questions at one point or another.
These guys know alot and they're all correct. I dont have the specs, but I think stock horsepower is around 65-70. You can expect 10-20% increase I think with a "Stage 1" setup. So around 6-12 more horsepower. I noticed a pretty good seat of the pants difference and I haven't had mine dyno'd.
I run a V&H Propipe (2-1 exhaust is nice for performance without being blistering loud. I like the looks, some folks don't. Whatever floats your boat.) Good freeflow intake and a Power Commander with downloaded map.
Change pipes only first=better sound, hardly no performance increase, if any
Change A/C=more power, but must add more gas(aftermarket fuel control, dealer download, whatever)
Best to do all 3 if you can. And probably just my opinion, but dont do any of it until you've got 1000 miles on your scoot.
Have fun with it.
These guys know alot and they're all correct. I dont have the specs, but I think stock horsepower is around 65-70. You can expect 10-20% increase I think with a "Stage 1" setup. So around 6-12 more horsepower. I noticed a pretty good seat of the pants difference and I haven't had mine dyno'd.
I run a V&H Propipe (2-1 exhaust is nice for performance without being blistering loud. I like the looks, some folks don't. Whatever floats your boat.) Good freeflow intake and a Power Commander with downloaded map.
Change pipes only first=better sound, hardly no performance increase, if any
Change A/C=more power, but must add more gas(aftermarket fuel control, dealer download, whatever)
Best to do all 3 if you can. And probably just my opinion, but dont do any of it until you've got 1000 miles on your scoot.
Have fun with it.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,736
Likes: 3
From: Long Island, NY
in quick what others have already written...if you increase the intake of air (AC) and outtake of air (exhaust) you have to adjust the fuel mixture. two things:
1. instead of SERT and dyno you can also go for a 1 off download and flash of the existing settings on the ECM. (stealer will do that) If you are not planning any further engine upgrades then a simple download will be enough.
2. if you are looking for other things you could do that do not require rebuilding the engine, you could looking at upgrading your cams. the stock cams are well stock lol. you can upgrade those, it will add a little extra zip to your ride. After that you could also change the primary drive from chain to gear driven. in the long run it avoids the chain tension issues that arise.
1. instead of SERT and dyno you can also go for a 1 off download and flash of the existing settings on the ECM. (stealer will do that) If you are not planning any further engine upgrades then a simple download will be enough.
2. if you are looking for other things you could do that do not require rebuilding the engine, you could looking at upgrading your cams. the stock cams are well stock lol. you can upgrade those, it will add a little extra zip to your ride. After that you could also change the primary drive from chain to gear driven. in the long run it avoids the chain tension issues that arise.
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Club Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 145,895
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From: 40 miles Northeast of Indy..
Ur new stock motor in not starving for AIR, it starving for GAS...
Not enough Fuel is what makes Ur motor lean, Ur stocker is running its A/F somewhere close to 14.8 and to cool her down Ur'll need more more fuel and an A/F around 13.8..
Thats what a good FM system will do and not just across the board like some of the less $$ $'s ones....A good FM will make allow adjustments across the board at different throttle positions..
As U said above U didn't really notice much difference while riding a Stg 1 bike.. Thats right, usually its barely noticeably.
Dealer told me when I did mine I should expect 10% more power when buying,,,, but after installed and dyno, 3-5 % is what I ended up with and more real in what U'll get.
But it will run cooler, no hesitations, start better and better MPG's
Not enough Fuel is what makes Ur motor lean, Ur stocker is running its A/F somewhere close to 14.8 and to cool her down Ur'll need more more fuel and an A/F around 13.8..
Thats what a good FM system will do and not just across the board like some of the less $$ $'s ones....A good FM will make allow adjustments across the board at different throttle positions..
As U said above U didn't really notice much difference while riding a Stg 1 bike.. Thats right, usually its barely noticeably.
Dealer told me when I did mine I should expect 10% more power when buying,,,, but after installed and dyno, 3-5 % is what I ended up with and more real in what U'll get.
But it will run cooler, no hesitations, start better and better MPG's
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