Wierd electrical problem
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Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Blairsville GA
Re: FroggyFatboy comment...
side note: if you have metal on any type of speed sensor, or the plastic is worn away from contact with the gear or ring, you have bigger problems...
Both sensors are magnetic and as such they will collect metal. Every time you do an oil change... there's metal present on the drain plug, so it stands to reason it'll be present on the sensors too. The more often you change it the less you'll find.
Any large amount or large pieces do raise an alarm! Bottom line though, it's there, clean it off now and again... call it preventative maintenance because left there, it will throw off readings and eventually help wear away the thin layer of plastic.
Note: The only way the crank could contact the crankshaft sensor is if the bottom end came apart... "in a big way"! Same scenario for the speed sensor in the transmission.
side note: if you have metal on any type of speed sensor, or the plastic is worn away from contact with the gear or ring, you have bigger problems...
Both sensors are magnetic and as such they will collect metal. Every time you do an oil change... there's metal present on the drain plug, so it stands to reason it'll be present on the sensors too. The more often you change it the less you'll find.
Any large amount or large pieces do raise an alarm! Bottom line though, it's there, clean it off now and again... call it preventative maintenance because left there, it will throw off readings and eventually help wear away the thin layer of plastic.
Note: The only way the crank could contact the crankshaft sensor is if the bottom end came apart... "in a big way"! Same scenario for the speed sensor in the transmission.
I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out how the bike can run from the ign or acc position and it's not the switch, and how the speedo and odo are missing and it's not the VSS. The idiot lights work as well as the security light in the speedo itself, so power is definitely getting to the console.
Like I said a weird problem. I'm going to keep asking around. Sooner or later I'll come across someone that says "the exact same thing happened to me."
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Joined: Apr 2010
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From: Western MD
Re: FroggyFatboy comment...
side note: if you have metal on any type of speed sensor, or the plastic is worn away from contact with the gear or ring, you have bigger problems...
Both sensors are magnetic and as such they will collect metal. Every time you do an oil change... there's metal present on the drain plug, so it stands to reason it'll be present on the sensors too. The more often you change it the less you'll find.
Any large amount or large pieces do raise an alarm! Bottom line though, it's there, clean it off now and again... call it preventative maintenance because left there, it will throw off readings and eventually help wear away the thin layer of plastic.
Note: The only way the crank could contact the crankshaft sensor is if the bottom end came apart... "in a big way"! Same scenario for the speed sensor in the transmission.
side note: if you have metal on any type of speed sensor, or the plastic is worn away from contact with the gear or ring, you have bigger problems...
Both sensors are magnetic and as such they will collect metal. Every time you do an oil change... there's metal present on the drain plug, so it stands to reason it'll be present on the sensors too. The more often you change it the less you'll find.
Any large amount or large pieces do raise an alarm! Bottom line though, it's there, clean it off now and again... call it preventative maintenance because left there, it will throw off readings and eventually help wear away the thin layer of plastic.
Note: The only way the crank could contact the crankshaft sensor is if the bottom end came apart... "in a big way"! Same scenario for the speed sensor in the transmission.
yes i should have said, wear dust is normal and fine.. when i said metal i assume most would understand metal to mean pieces the size of finger nail clippings or small paint chipso.. you know what assume means..
collection of wear dust shouldn't cause the sensor end to wear, there is usually maybe .050 -.100 gap to begin with. the (for lack of better term)" turbulence " in the gap of the sensor and gear should keep the gap consistent or in cases of extreme buildup, slight contact wiping the dust off..
Note: The only way the crank could contact the crankshaft sensor is if the bottom end came apart... "in a big way"! Same scenario for the speed sensor in the transmission
and thats why i said if if the sensor is damaged, "you have bigger problems".. sensor damage usually means a bearing has gone south and letting the shaft run out of true..
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Joined: Apr 2010
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From: Western MD
with the bike starting in acc, i would think that maybe a relay is stuck in the on/energized position.... i don't have a wiring schematic to see what, if any relay that is only energized in start only postion..
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From: Blairsville GA
Thanks.
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: tenn
I've chased the same problem on my 08 train when it had less than 3000 miles. I changed the vss, improved all ground points, and lubed the swith with dilectric grease. The main ground at the rear tank area was a joke. I relocated to direct frame ground and sanded to bare metal contact. 7000 miles later and no more issues.
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Joined: Mar 2011
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From: Georgia
My 2000 heritage just started doing this yesterday. Engine light comes on, no speedo or odometer. Auto cancel quit working on the blinkers too. When I come to a stop the odometer comes back on and engine light goes off. Guess I will check the sensor.
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Extreme HDF Member
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From: Blairsville GA
You can isolate the ignition from the accessory by making a simple jumper, see attached photo! Plug the middle connector in the center position (red wire) of ignition switch harness (that's battery direct). Then place one of the two outside connectors in an outside position, one at a time (red/gray is ignition & red/black is accessory). With one connected there should be no power at the other check with a test light). If there is you have a problem with the starter relay, or the wiring / connectors between the two points, ignition switch & starter relay!
The starter relay explained in other attachment!
The starter relay explained in other attachment!
However, the NT still allows the bike to start in both positions. Last week I swapped the ign switches and that didn't make a difference. I think I've got a bad speedo head (unless there is a serviceable piece I'm missing), and something else on the NT that isn't the switch or relay that is allowing the bike to start in both IGN and ACC. To make the problem even weirder, this all happened while the bike was sitting during the winter months. It wasn't happening last fall.
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as for the bike starting in both the accesory and run position, could the wires for for both be reversed on the ignition switch, possibily the connector being on backwards. just a guess as if you did get those two wire wires back wards it would give you the same sympton
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Extreme HDF Member
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From: Blairsville GA
as for the bike starting in both the accesory and run position, could the wires for for both be reversed on the ignition switch, possibily the connector being on backwards. just a guess as if you did get those two wire wires back wards it would give you the same sympton
The troubleshooting flow chart in the service manual indicates that as a primary test if the odometer does not display numbers the speedo needs to be replaced. That of course is what I was hoping wasn't the case. If anyone has upgraded to a speedo/tach unit and wants to sell a Softail or Road King speedo from the 99-04 models (part # 67033-99A) send me a PM.