head work
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 17,547
Likes: 7,153
From: Oxford, Nc
With enough money you can have both a low end grunt motor and a high revving drag racer. But if you're like me and have to choose between the 2 riding styles, I chose torque for touring, because that's what I do 99% of the time.
So on my 95" Stage II, I run Andrews 26 cams with stock heads. The stock heads improve torque over the more expensive flowed heads w/o other mods. The flowed heads need cams and pistons and tuning to maintain torque, but reward you with better HP too.
First things first though, I'd start with the tuner and then talk to someoone that can recommend the best combination of mods to give you what you want.
Flowed heads by themselves would be disapponting.
So on my 95" Stage II, I run Andrews 26 cams with stock heads. The stock heads improve torque over the more expensive flowed heads w/o other mods. The flowed heads need cams and pistons and tuning to maintain torque, but reward you with better HP too.
First things first though, I'd start with the tuner and then talk to someoone that can recommend the best combination of mods to give you what you want.
Flowed heads by themselves would be disapponting.
Club Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 145,895
Likes: 821
From: 40 miles Northeast of Indy..
IMOHO. I'd be calling and talking to some Builders or head Porters guys.
In all honesty U'll most likely get The here's "What I DiD" and I love it answers in here. There are very few good motor builders in here on a daily basis.
Also there are DYNO threads in the Touring and Softail sections that's purely shows and have posting of dyno's of members in here.
If I was U, I'd also spend some time in there seeing what others done, what picks they used and the results they got. And with all the dyno sheet's U'll be able to see where the TQ is.
here's the one i the touring section.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/touri...r-baggers.html
Here's the one for ST's
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/softa...-softails.html
Might even read through a couple of these..
http://www.google.com/search?source=...45l0.10.4l14l0
.
In all honesty U'll most likely get The here's "What I DiD" and I love it answers in here. There are very few good motor builders in here on a daily basis.
Also there are DYNO threads in the Touring and Softail sections that's purely shows and have posting of dyno's of members in here.
If I was U, I'd also spend some time in there seeing what others done, what picks they used and the results they got. And with all the dyno sheet's U'll be able to see where the TQ is.
here's the one i the touring section.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/touri...r-baggers.html
Here's the one for ST's
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/softa...-softails.html
Might even read through a couple of these..
http://www.google.com/search?source=...45l0.10.4l14l0
.
Last edited by oct1949; Sep 10, 2011 at 03:12 PM.
IMOHO. I'd be calling and talking to some Builders or head Porters guys.
In all honesty U'll most likely get The here's "What I DiD" and I love it answers in here. There are very few good motor builders in here on a daily basis.
Also there are DYNO threads in the Touring and Softail sections that's purely shows and have posting of dyno's of members in here.
If I was U, I'd also spend some time in there seeing what others done, what picks they used and the results they got. And with all the dyno sheet's U'll be able to see where the TQ is.
here's the one i the touring section.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/touri...r-baggers.html
Here's the one for ST's
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/softa...-softails.html
Might even read through a couple of these..
http://www.google.com/search?source=...45l0.10.4l14l0
.
In all honesty U'll most likely get The here's "What I DiD" and I love it answers in here. There are very few good motor builders in here on a daily basis.
Also there are DYNO threads in the Touring and Softail sections that's purely shows and have posting of dyno's of members in here.
If I was U, I'd also spend some time in there seeing what others done, what picks they used and the results they got. And with all the dyno sheet's U'll be able to see where the TQ is.
here's the one i the touring section.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/touri...r-baggers.html
Here's the one for ST's
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/softa...-softails.html
Might even read through a couple of these..
http://www.google.com/search?source=...45l0.10.4l14l0
.
Cam selection; Woods 5-6, Woods 555, Cyclerama 575
[/quote]I can tell this little project is gonna start getting expensive, lol. Looks like a set of woods 555 might be ordered soon... God I hate replacing parts I already spent good money on..[/quote]
Lose the SE255's, sell 'em on ebay, and get a set of GOOD cams FIRST (& maybe a good tuner, I like my TTS the best). The Long-shot pipes are fine.
Here's a website you can check to see if the Woods 555 has torque down low enough for you , "http://fuelmotousa.com/2010tw555.jpg". Intake timing is 21/41, so It won't have the nice smooth pull you get w/ the SE255 from 1000 to 2200, but beyond that it'll rip (I had to use the S&S 551's, which are "similar" to 255's for towing, as I MUST have smooth pulling below 2000 Rpm for towing my camper). You'd like Woods 5-6 better, it'll have usable power in the teens, say from 1600 up, but should still pull hard to about 5000 (others who use this cam can fill you in). You'll need higher lift springs, SE PN 18013-03A, to accomodate their higher 0.575 lift, but if you are having the heads done, they should be set up for you. Here's two other Fuelmoto sites for more info on Woods cams & tuning services available, lifters, etc. http://fuelmotousa.com/2010tw555.jpg,
Tuner info: http://www.fuelmotousa.com/powervision.htm
If you ARE going to spend the money, go with Fuelmoto, who is familiar with Woods cams, and will port accordingly. ANOTHER option I would consider, is Cyclerama's 575 cams. I researched these cams extensively, and you can have the same Engineer that designed them port your heads (you can't go wrong here). They have fast ramps like the Woods cams, short set timing, and an advanced profile, with a slower initial opening, (easier on the valve train). They then ramp up quickly to reduce inversion issues. This is combined with a slower closing, results in better cylinder fill and port velocity, without the valve train noise associated with Woods cams. Timing is as follows (intake closure is several degrees sooner, lowering their powerband over the Woods cams): CR575 Intake open 15 close 35, .575 lift 230 duration,100 LC, with a Low 22 degree overlap. Ex. open 49, close 7. .560 lift 236 Dur. 111LC 105.5 LSA. You can compare these w/ the Woods specs on the Web sites above. -Dyno's show a bit better low end with these cams, which you would like if you are used to the 255 cams. Wes, their engineer, gave me a quote on porting my heads last fall, for only $525, a REAL bargain. Here is his quote:
"Port & polish your heads for maximum torque. Multi angle valve job on intakes. Radius angle valve job on exhaust. Set valve to valve & seal to retainer clearance, set installed valve spring height. CC chambers and calculate actual compression ratio. Flow Test & Velocity probe ports. Machine & install compression releases. (2) 1.900 Hi-Flow stainless steel intake valves, (2) Compression releases, (4) Viton valve stem seals. $525.00 + freight". -With parts included, this is a great value. You COULD have your heads milled .020 while they have
them. Wes will be glad to talk to you, contact CycleRama at 727-546-0889
If you look at my signature, you'll see my 2007 FLSTSC, 103ci, 113Hp/109Tq. I had the heads ported by John Sachs, the same Guy that designed the TW55 cams I am running, a very good combination. Always have the guy that designs or knows your cams port your heads, if possible. John is available, but his services run around $6000 for a complete build, worth it in my book, but you can see how Wes is offering a very good deal on his services. Contact me if you need more info, Dyno charts, part numbers, etc. Good luck with your "New build" !
-Stoood
Lose the SE255's, sell 'em on ebay, and get a set of GOOD cams FIRST (& maybe a good tuner, I like my TTS the best). The Long-shot pipes are fine.
Here's a website you can check to see if the Woods 555 has torque down low enough for you , "http://fuelmotousa.com/2010tw555.jpg". Intake timing is 21/41, so It won't have the nice smooth pull you get w/ the SE255 from 1000 to 2200, but beyond that it'll rip (I had to use the S&S 551's, which are "similar" to 255's for towing, as I MUST have smooth pulling below 2000 Rpm for towing my camper). You'd like Woods 5-6 better, it'll have usable power in the teens, say from 1600 up, but should still pull hard to about 5000 (others who use this cam can fill you in). You'll need higher lift springs, SE PN 18013-03A, to accomodate their higher 0.575 lift, but if you are having the heads done, they should be set up for you. Here's two other Fuelmoto sites for more info on Woods cams & tuning services available, lifters, etc. http://fuelmotousa.com/2010tw555.jpg,
Tuner info: http://www.fuelmotousa.com/powervision.htm
If you ARE going to spend the money, go with Fuelmoto, who is familiar with Woods cams, and will port accordingly. ANOTHER option I would consider, is Cyclerama's 575 cams. I researched these cams extensively, and you can have the same Engineer that designed them port your heads (you can't go wrong here). They have fast ramps like the Woods cams, short set timing, and an advanced profile, with a slower initial opening, (easier on the valve train). They then ramp up quickly to reduce inversion issues. This is combined with a slower closing, results in better cylinder fill and port velocity, without the valve train noise associated with Woods cams. Timing is as follows (intake closure is several degrees sooner, lowering their powerband over the Woods cams): CR575 Intake open 15 close 35, .575 lift 230 duration,100 LC, with a Low 22 degree overlap. Ex. open 49, close 7. .560 lift 236 Dur. 111LC 105.5 LSA. You can compare these w/ the Woods specs on the Web sites above. -Dyno's show a bit better low end with these cams, which you would like if you are used to the 255 cams. Wes, their engineer, gave me a quote on porting my heads last fall, for only $525, a REAL bargain. Here is his quote:
"Port & polish your heads for maximum torque. Multi angle valve job on intakes. Radius angle valve job on exhaust. Set valve to valve & seal to retainer clearance, set installed valve spring height. CC chambers and calculate actual compression ratio. Flow Test & Velocity probe ports. Machine & install compression releases. (2) 1.900 Hi-Flow stainless steel intake valves, (2) Compression releases, (4) Viton valve stem seals. $525.00 + freight". -With parts included, this is a great value. You COULD have your heads milled .020 while they have
them. Wes will be glad to talk to you, contact CycleRama at 727-546-0889
If you look at my signature, you'll see my 2007 FLSTSC, 103ci, 113Hp/109Tq. I had the heads ported by John Sachs, the same Guy that designed the TW55 cams I am running, a very good combination. Always have the guy that designs or knows your cams port your heads, if possible. John is available, but his services run around $6000 for a complete build, worth it in my book, but you can see how Wes is offering a very good deal on his services. Contact me if you need more info, Dyno charts, part numbers, etc. Good luck with your "New build" !
-Stoood
Tourer
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
From: Tampa Fl
Head work
So I'm 99% sure I'm getting my heads done this fall when the riding season is over. I'm looking for input about whether or not it's worth it, what to expect, what to look out for, and anything else useful you can tell me. Also, I've yet to fork out the money for the auto tune for my PCV, so at the moment i'm just running the $h;tty hd 103 flash. Will the bike still run not bad with that flash after the heads are done, or will the PCV be a must? Thanks guys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF_iSuhIaC0
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,109
Likes: 9
From: Connecticut
The key is to spend the money on the right parts in the first place. Once you start getting into a build then spend your money wisely and trust your builder. Get one with a good rep too. As far as a tuner goes don't get cheap on the tuner, much better options out there than a PCV. Cause you will be back here complaining about how you spent money and the bike runs like crap and only gets 30mpg.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,492
Likes: 19
From: Illinois
I was told once long ago by an old timer that has worked on Harleys his entire life that " you just can't beat a good head job " 
and I always thought, who am I to argue with that!! No, seriously now, he said the 2 best things you can do for a motor is a good head job and a good tune. All to often guys go on and get big bore kits, cams and so on and never do anything to thier heads and that is so true and so over looked. So much starts and ends with your heads yet is often never done and always over looked. Give me the option for a 103 kit and a cam or a head and valve job and I will take the head work and tune every time. That is just my opinion and what I have been taught and what I do and live by.
and I always thought, who am I to argue with that!! No, seriously now, he said the 2 best things you can do for a motor is a good head job and a good tune. All to often guys go on and get big bore kits, cams and so on and never do anything to thier heads and that is so true and so over looked. So much starts and ends with your heads yet is often never done and always over looked. Give me the option for a 103 kit and a cam or a head and valve job and I will take the head work and tune every time. That is just my opinion and what I have been taught and what I do and live by.
Road Warrior
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,515
Likes: 1
From: malibu
if you could wait another month, you could use me as an experiment, i guess... I have Andrews 26 cams, mikuni carb, K&N, and VnH BRs.... im doin head work and a Zippers CPU upgrade next month and doin dyno work soon thereafeter (......Again!) Right now i got 81Hp and 93 # Tq....
Ill let ya know how it kicks some @$$!!!!!!!!
Ill let ya know how it kicks some @$$!!!!!!!!
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Southpaw Super Glide: A Left-Hand-Drive 1979 Harley FXE Built to Fit the Rider
Verdad Gallardo
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,109
Likes: 9
From: Connecticut
I didn't mean to get on your butt, for what you have contact Jamie at Fuel Moto as he is a dealer and uses a PCV and let him set you up with what you need to make it work for you. A Harley like any other engine has to be balanced with the parts you put in it and use to control it. I would still dyno it if I were you, get it close and then the autotune you want to use will work out better for you. JMO I have had the heads done on mine with a 103" with 204's made a huge change yes I could improve it more by changing the pipes, and the cams as they are a little small. But I like the way it runs gets good mileage. I did mine my self but I have been doing this kind of stuff for 30years so I have a little understanding on what works and what doesn't. What you have now could work better for you if you had it tuned and thats cheaper than doing the heads with new cams