Samson Cholo's, torque cones?
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 210
Likes: 1
From: Pacific Northwest
People pushing 'torque cones' are nothing more than snake oil salesmen.
If the fuel delivery is set properly for the intake/exhaust, the cones will do absolutely nothing beneficial.
Tourer
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 493
Likes: 6
From: Colorado
It can be found halfway down the page on this link.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/softa...-question.html
Last edited by Lawleywood; Oct 31, 2011 at 11:33 AM.
Former Sponsor
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 555
Likes: 1
Even if you have not felt a loss of power you will still get more torque with the torque cones. It may not be seat of the pants increase but it will be an increase. It's a cheap way to add more power, off the line power and passing power.
Thank you,
JR
Thank you,
JR
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 210
Likes: 1
From: Pacific Northwest
Maybe you should read this article that TheTroupe posted before you start calling people names and such. JR happens to be very knowledgeable about the Samson products. Go ahead and read it, then you can apologize to him.
It can be found halfway down the page on this link.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/softa...-question.html
It can be found halfway down the page on this link.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/softa...-question.html
Here's a quote from the article:
"Much controversy (and apparent confusion) surrounds the issue of exhaust "back-pressure". Many performance-minded people who are otherwise knowledgeable still cling tenaciously to the old school concept.... "You need more back-pressure for better performance."
For virtually all high performance purposes, backpressure in an exhaust system increases engine-pumping losses and decreases available engine power. It is true that some engines are mechanically tuned to "X" amount of backpressure and can show a loss of low-end torque when that backpressure is reduced. It is also true that the same engine that lost low-end torque with reduced back-pressure can be mechanically re-tuned to show an increase of low-end torque with the same reduction of back-pressure. More importantly, maximum mid-to-high RPM power will be achieved with the lowest possible backpressure. Period!"
Take particular notice of the underlined part.
Like I said; SNAKE OIL. Any mechanical engineer worth his salt will tell you that 'torque cones' are a gimmick. As P.T. Barnum said, there's a sucker born every minute.
Former Sponsor
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 555
Likes: 1
To Lawleywood,
Thank you for pointing out a great article. The torque cones also give an anti-reversionary effect as well as increasing velocity in the exhaust pipe. This is why it has been proven torque cones really do work. Kenny Price, the owner at Samson, Invented this devise many years ago knowing the larger diameter exhaust at the time suffered from low velocity. The Samson torque cones were invented using old time rocket science where the gasses are constricted evenly and expelled evenly but a much better rate of speed which is the velocity of the exhaust. The smooth bore of the torque cones do not interrupt flow so are a very real functioning performance part. The dyno testing throughout the years have proven that torque cones work very well. The engines that do not need the torque cones would be a hemi head engine like the shovelhead engines. All others with the squish method of compression benefit well with torque cones.
Thank you,
JR
Thank you for pointing out a great article. The torque cones also give an anti-reversionary effect as well as increasing velocity in the exhaust pipe. This is why it has been proven torque cones really do work. Kenny Price, the owner at Samson, Invented this devise many years ago knowing the larger diameter exhaust at the time suffered from low velocity. The Samson torque cones were invented using old time rocket science where the gasses are constricted evenly and expelled evenly but a much better rate of speed which is the velocity of the exhaust. The smooth bore of the torque cones do not interrupt flow so are a very real functioning performance part. The dyno testing throughout the years have proven that torque cones work very well. The engines that do not need the torque cones would be a hemi head engine like the shovelhead engines. All others with the squish method of compression benefit well with torque cones.
Thank you,
JR
Tourer
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 493
Likes: 6
From: Colorado
Maybe you should read the article again.
Here's a quote from the article:
"Much controversy (and apparent confusion) surrounds the issue of exhaust "back-pressure". Many performance-minded people who are otherwise knowledgeable still cling tenaciously to the old school concept.... "You need more back-pressure for better performance."
For virtually all high performance purposes, backpressure in an exhaust system increases engine-pumping losses and decreases available engine power. It is true that some engines are mechanically tuned to "X" amount of backpressure and can show a loss of low-end torque when that backpressure is reduced. It is also true that the same engine that lost low-end torque with reduced back-pressure can be mechanically re-tuned to show an increase of low-end torque with the same reduction of back-pressure. More importantly, maximum mid-to-high RPM power will be achieved with the lowest possible backpressure. Period!"
Take particular notice of the underlined part.
Like I said; SNAKE OIL. Any mechanical engineer worth his salt will tell you that 'torque cones' are a gimmick. As P.T. Barnum said, there's a sucker born every minute.
Here's a quote from the article:
"Much controversy (and apparent confusion) surrounds the issue of exhaust "back-pressure". Many performance-minded people who are otherwise knowledgeable still cling tenaciously to the old school concept.... "You need more back-pressure for better performance."
For virtually all high performance purposes, backpressure in an exhaust system increases engine-pumping losses and decreases available engine power. It is true that some engines are mechanically tuned to "X" amount of backpressure and can show a loss of low-end torque when that backpressure is reduced. It is also true that the same engine that lost low-end torque with reduced back-pressure can be mechanically re-tuned to show an increase of low-end torque with the same reduction of back-pressure. More importantly, maximum mid-to-high RPM power will be achieved with the lowest possible backpressure. Period!"
Take particular notice of the underlined part.
Like I said; SNAKE OIL. Any mechanical engineer worth his salt will tell you that 'torque cones' are a gimmick. As P.T. Barnum said, there's a sucker born every minute.
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 210
Likes: 1
From: Pacific Northwest
To Lawleywood,
Thank you for pointing out a great article. The torque cones also give an anti-reversionary effect as well as increasing velocity in the exhaust pipe. This is why it has been proven torque cones really do work. Kenny Price, the owner at Samson, Invented this devise many years ago knowing the larger diameter exhaust at the time suffered from low velocity. The Samson torque cones were invented using old time rocket science where the gasses are constricted evenly and expelled evenly but a much better rate of speed which is the velocity of the exhaust. The smooth bore of the torque cones do not interrupt flow so are a very real functioning performance part. The dyno testing throughout the years have proven that torque cones work very well.
Thank you for pointing out a great article. The torque cones also give an anti-reversionary effect as well as increasing velocity in the exhaust pipe. This is why it has been proven torque cones really do work. Kenny Price, the owner at Samson, Invented this devise many years ago knowing the larger diameter exhaust at the time suffered from low velocity. The Samson torque cones were invented using old time rocket science where the gasses are constricted evenly and expelled evenly but a much better rate of speed which is the velocity of the exhaust. The smooth bore of the torque cones do not interrupt flow so are a very real functioning performance part. The dyno testing throughout the years have proven that torque cones work very well.
Adding cones effectively reduces the size of the exhaust openings. That effectively increases back pressure. Increasing back pressure is counterproductive for producing torque/power, PERIOD.
You need to learn before you try to teach.
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Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 210
Likes: 1
From: Pacific Northwest
Same reduction of back pressure. Adding cones INCREASES back pressure, so that would NOT be "with the same reduction of back pressure".
Re-jetting the carb / re-mapping the EFI, changing cam(s) and or timing are ALL forms of mechanical tuning.
You are mixing 4 stroke dynamics with 2 stroke dynamics. As far as exhaust gas reversion as it applies to 4 stroke engines, the important factor is that the exhaust pipes are equal length. Other than that, the less back pressure the better.
Exhaust scavenging and energy waves are important issues when designing expansion chambers for 2 stroke engines. Not so much when designing headers for 4 stroke engines. If it was at all beneficial to pinch off the exhaust flow right where the pipe connects to the head, then headers/drag pipes would be designed that way.
Last edited by pnw_hd_rider; Oct 31, 2011 at 06:05 PM.