tuning question
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Tourer
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 398
Likes: 0
From: pittsburgh, pa
tuning question
Last weekend i installed the se cam plate, new bearings, 203 cam, new tappets, new se spark plugs and adjustable pushrods on a 2006 softail standard with a mikuni 42mm carb with yost power tube, se stage one breather kit, vance and hines short shots staggered with big city thunder baffels in them. now the bike runs like **** so im guessing i need to tune it.
bike is jetted for a stock bike because thats what it was.
it seems to idle ok and run ok if just cruising but if i try to go from low throttle to wide open in sputters and breaks up real bad. if the bike has a hard pull such as going up a hill its better and seems ok. bike seemed to be ok in the higher rpms once you got there but getting there was a struggle.
plugs when pulled after riding seemed to have a little greyish to white dust on them and for just going around the block motor seemed to be pretty hot. so im guessing its running lean. from reading the hsr manual it seems like i need to move the need up one. does that sound right?
could the Big city thunder baffles not be giving the bike enough back pressure. im thinking of going back to stock baffles because i dont know if i like the sound of the bike right now. the sound really changed alot with the different cams. i was told it shouldnt change it that much which brings me to my next question.
i also want to make sure there couldnt be something else wrong with the work i did? oil light is out and no leaks. could the push rods be adjusted wrong? i followed the instructions to a T.
heres a picture of the plugs after a ride to the bank maybe 2 miles and a ride around the block maybe 2 or 3 miles.
thanks for your help all.
bike is jetted for a stock bike because thats what it was.
it seems to idle ok and run ok if just cruising but if i try to go from low throttle to wide open in sputters and breaks up real bad. if the bike has a hard pull such as going up a hill its better and seems ok. bike seemed to be ok in the higher rpms once you got there but getting there was a struggle.
plugs when pulled after riding seemed to have a little greyish to white dust on them and for just going around the block motor seemed to be pretty hot. so im guessing its running lean. from reading the hsr manual it seems like i need to move the need up one. does that sound right?
could the Big city thunder baffles not be giving the bike enough back pressure. im thinking of going back to stock baffles because i dont know if i like the sound of the bike right now. the sound really changed alot with the different cams. i was told it shouldnt change it that much which brings me to my next question.
i also want to make sure there couldnt be something else wrong with the work i did? oil light is out and no leaks. could the push rods be adjusted wrong? i followed the instructions to a T.
heres a picture of the plugs after a ride to the bank maybe 2 miles and a ride around the block maybe 2 or 3 miles.
thanks for your help all.
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 398
Likes: 0
From: pittsburgh, pa
this morning i messed around with the 3 options for different baffles i have. i am going to run the stock vance and hines baffles that come with the short shots staggered. dont know if that helps anyone. they sounded the best to me. i know its a crappy performing exhaust and im not looking to get big numbers from the bike. im just looking to get the best out of what i have now.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,624
Likes: 189
From: Newcastle, Ca.
Typical problems with cam installs are:
- Sumping. Oil pump not aligned correctly.
- Cams are off a tooth.
203's are not an aggressive cam and that much different from stock so even if it needs more fuel I dont think it would run that bad.
Sumping:
"A pinched or wrong o-ring to seal the connection between the scavenge side of the oil pump to the crankcase at the scavenge port or a mis-aligned oil pump can both cause sumping. It is simply a condition wherein the oil pump is not removing oil from the crank case as fast as it should. As Dawg says, the crank wheels then must rotate in an oil bath. Look at it like this, it's like trying to run in waist deep water.
Symptoms are sluggish performance and the engine will heat up quick and run hot. The oil not only lubricates but is also a coolant.
The way to check for sumping is to ride the bike, get the engine up to operating temps and then, per Dawg's post, pull the crank case drain plug and see how much oil comes out. I have seen nearly a quart come out of a sumping engine but 4-6 ounces is normal. Be careful R/Ring the crankcase drain plug. It's an NPT plug and being tapered can crack a case if over tightened."
Cams off a tooth can be check by removing cover and inspecting cam alignment. Or perform a ccp test, both cylinders should be the same.
- Sumping. Oil pump not aligned correctly.
- Cams are off a tooth.
203's are not an aggressive cam and that much different from stock so even if it needs more fuel I dont think it would run that bad.
Sumping:
"A pinched or wrong o-ring to seal the connection between the scavenge side of the oil pump to the crankcase at the scavenge port or a mis-aligned oil pump can both cause sumping. It is simply a condition wherein the oil pump is not removing oil from the crank case as fast as it should. As Dawg says, the crank wheels then must rotate in an oil bath. Look at it like this, it's like trying to run in waist deep water.
Symptoms are sluggish performance and the engine will heat up quick and run hot. The oil not only lubricates but is also a coolant.
The way to check for sumping is to ride the bike, get the engine up to operating temps and then, per Dawg's post, pull the crank case drain plug and see how much oil comes out. I have seen nearly a quart come out of a sumping engine but 4-6 ounces is normal. Be careful R/Ring the crankcase drain plug. It's an NPT plug and being tapered can crack a case if over tightened."
Cams off a tooth can be check by removing cover and inspecting cam alignment. Or perform a ccp test, both cylinders should be the same.
Last edited by KumaRide; Jun 13, 2013 at 08:00 AM.
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 398
Likes: 0
From: pittsburgh, pa
Cams where aligned. I checked with a ruler multiple times. I'll try to check the crankcase oil tomorrow or sometime. Thanks. You don't think it's anything to do with the tuning? Just being off?
If the cams were off wouldn't the bike sound off like not firing at the right times?
If the cams were off wouldn't the bike sound off like not firing at the right times?
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 398
Likes: 0
From: pittsburgh, pa
to check for sumping i know it says in his post to get bike to operating temperature. do i have to ride the bike or can i let it sit in the driveway and idle to get to operating temp and then pull the case plug and see how much comes out? dont have a babysitter today so i cant leave thats why i ask.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,156
Likes: 41
From: So Cal
Double check your cam alignment (not off a tooth) as Kuma already said the SE 203 is a EPA complaint cam and very mild. Ive know guys with FI bikes that installed them and did not even change the tune and they ran OK
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Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 398
Likes: 0
From: pittsburgh, pa
ive triple checked the cam alignment. they are in line.
today i tore into the carb. found out apparently it wasnt set up to the standard parts in the carb. i knew about the yost power tube i put that in but apparently it has a 98 needle in instead of a 97 which is standard. the 98 is leaner. it was on the 3rd out of 5 positions too. i adjusted the needle down to the 5th position. i havent gotten to ride it yet so i will see if that helped anything as soon as i get a chance. probably tomorrow if its not raining. in the drive way it seemed to respond even quicker so im thinking that may have done the trick. i may have to look into a 97 needle if that doesnt work.
what would be the symptoms if the cam was off a tooth. because to me the bike just acted like it needed more gas to accelerate that quickly.
today i tore into the carb. found out apparently it wasnt set up to the standard parts in the carb. i knew about the yost power tube i put that in but apparently it has a 98 needle in instead of a 97 which is standard. the 98 is leaner. it was on the 3rd out of 5 positions too. i adjusted the needle down to the 5th position. i havent gotten to ride it yet so i will see if that helped anything as soon as i get a chance. probably tomorrow if its not raining. in the drive way it seemed to respond even quicker so im thinking that may have done the trick. i may have to look into a 97 needle if that doesnt work.
what would be the symptoms if the cam was off a tooth. because to me the bike just acted like it needed more gas to accelerate that quickly.
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Road Master
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 970
Likes: 19
From: Philippines
Had the same setup in my 03 Train. Had to re-jet one size larger on both the idle and main jet. Check out this Mikuni guide if you haven't already seen it.
http://www.mikuni.com/fs-tuning_guide.html
http://www.mikuni.com/fs-tuning_guide.html
Grand HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,624
Likes: 189
From: Newcastle, Ca.
It would run, but not that great, a loss of power. Very common. But, if you are 100% certain. As I mentioned earlier, a compression check will confirm.
