Nightster starting problems
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Seasoned HDF Member
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From: Texas! Ya mean there's someplace else?
Nightster starting problems
Been having trouble getting the beastie to fire off. It cranks, but sometimes takes several l-o-n-g attempts to fire. Then it might run 2 seconds & quit, go 100 yards and quit, of go 5 miles and quit. Always fires right back up, but I can't trust it!
Aside from an out-and-out ECM failure I'm looking at a possible moisture/corrosion problem. I will be checking/cleaning all the fuses/fuseholders tomorrow morning after work. I'm wondering about the ECM module connections, though.
Can I disconnect the module, clean the connectors, and hook it back together without having to do the reprogramming & password learning procedures? I have the service manual, but not the electrical manual.
Lord, give me a carburetor and a set of points!
Aside from an out-and-out ECM failure I'm looking at a possible moisture/corrosion problem. I will be checking/cleaning all the fuses/fuseholders tomorrow morning after work. I'm wondering about the ECM module connections, though.
Can I disconnect the module, clean the connectors, and hook it back together without having to do the reprogramming & password learning procedures? I have the service manual, but not the electrical manual.
Lord, give me a carburetor and a set of points!
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Seasoned HDF Member
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From: Texas! Ya mean there's someplace else?
Got a whole slew of codes. I'm at work 'til tomorrow morning. Here's 3 I remember - P0261, P0263, P1003. All these could relate to a loss of power to the ECM, or to the loss of the main relay because of a loss of it's ground through the ECM.
Couple times I thought I didn't hear the fuel pump kick on, but it was in a noisy environment, so I'm not sure.
Biggest concern was that I didn't want to disconnect the ECM connector and then have to haul it to the dealer to have it reset. I didn't think I'd need to, since it should be no different than killing the power as when replacing the battery. Figured I'd better ask 'cause I'll be a little punchy tomorrow morning after pulling a 12, and being up for about 20 hours. Us ol' farts don't do that crap as well as we used to!
Couple times I thought I didn't hear the fuel pump kick on, but it was in a noisy environment, so I'm not sure.
Biggest concern was that I didn't want to disconnect the ECM connector and then have to haul it to the dealer to have it reset. I didn't think I'd need to, since it should be no different than killing the power as when replacing the battery. Figured I'd better ask 'cause I'll be a little punchy tomorrow morning after pulling a 12, and being up for about 20 hours. Us ol' farts don't do that crap as well as we used to!
Last edited by pococj; Oct 1, 2009 at 06:21 PM.
Tourer
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 481
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From: Minnesota
Looking at the codes you mentioned, you definitely could have a bad System Relay. P0261, P0263 are the front and rear injectors and the P1003 is System Relay contacts open. System relay controls the fuel pump and has input to the injectors. I had the System Relay go bad on mine and I swapped it with the Starter Relay to get it going. You could troubleshoot the same way. I carry two extras now, they're cheap at $13.00 a piece.
Also might check your battery connections and ground connections at the engine.
Also might check your battery connections and ground connections at the engine.
Last edited by Blackcherry Low; Oct 1, 2009 at 08:03 PM.
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From: Texas! Ya mean there's someplace else?
Thought I'd post all the codes:
ECM: P0261=Front Injector Open/Low EFI, P0263=Rear Injector Open/Low EFI, P1003=System Relay Contacts Open EFI, U1300=Serial Data Low TSM/TSSM, U1301=Serial Data Open/High EFI.
S: U1301=Serial Data Open/High Instruments, U1016=Loss of ICM/ECM Serial Data Instruments.
SP: U1301=Serial Data Open High Instruments
I pulled all the fuses and relays, cleaned their connector bayonets with Electro-Flash, then used a hand wire brush to remove any corrosion. Next, I sprayed the Electro-Flash into the fuse & relay base sockets, used a small contact file to push into the sockets to clean out any possible corrosion, blew them out with compressed air, followed by another bath of Electro-Flash and a repeat of the compressed air, and finished with an inspection with a bright flashlight. Finally, I applied a very liberal dose of silicone-based dielectric grease to the bayonets, inserted and removed the fuses and relays several times to spread the grease into the sockets, re-greased the bayonets, and replaced everything. I checked the ECM connector and was pleased to find it has a sealing gasket to keep moisture out; all was good there. The bike fired right up - I think it takes 3 revolutions to "find" itself - just like new.
I believe the original problem was dirty/corroded connectors on the ignition fuse, and/or ECM fuse, and/or System Relay.
I went to my local NAPA for the dielectric grease, and had them cross the factory relays (Omron p/n 2165A21A) over to NAPA part number AR614. I bought one and tossed it into my tool pouch for a spare. It's a commonly used automotive relay, and should be available at any parts store. My NAPA price was $8.29, and I saw them on-line for $7.07 + shipping.
Now 'tis time for a ride!
Thanks to all, gents!
ECM: P0261=Front Injector Open/Low EFI, P0263=Rear Injector Open/Low EFI, P1003=System Relay Contacts Open EFI, U1300=Serial Data Low TSM/TSSM, U1301=Serial Data Open/High EFI.
S: U1301=Serial Data Open/High Instruments, U1016=Loss of ICM/ECM Serial Data Instruments.
SP: U1301=Serial Data Open High Instruments
I pulled all the fuses and relays, cleaned their connector bayonets with Electro-Flash, then used a hand wire brush to remove any corrosion. Next, I sprayed the Electro-Flash into the fuse & relay base sockets, used a small contact file to push into the sockets to clean out any possible corrosion, blew them out with compressed air, followed by another bath of Electro-Flash and a repeat of the compressed air, and finished with an inspection with a bright flashlight. Finally, I applied a very liberal dose of silicone-based dielectric grease to the bayonets, inserted and removed the fuses and relays several times to spread the grease into the sockets, re-greased the bayonets, and replaced everything. I checked the ECM connector and was pleased to find it has a sealing gasket to keep moisture out; all was good there. The bike fired right up - I think it takes 3 revolutions to "find" itself - just like new.
I believe the original problem was dirty/corroded connectors on the ignition fuse, and/or ECM fuse, and/or System Relay.
I went to my local NAPA for the dielectric grease, and had them cross the factory relays (Omron p/n 2165A21A) over to NAPA part number AR614. I bought one and tossed it into my tool pouch for a spare. It's a commonly used automotive relay, and should be available at any parts store. My NAPA price was $8.29, and I saw them on-line for $7.07 + shipping.
Now 'tis time for a ride!
Thanks to all, gents!
Last edited by pococj; Oct 2, 2009 at 02:31 PM. Reason: Added relay price.
Club Member
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Boynton Beach, FloriDuh
Glad it worked out for you Skip. The 07/08 Sporties are known to have issues with water intrusion into the wiring harness. I don't have the specifics, but there is a Service Bulletin out there for this problem that calls for the dealer to replace the wiring harness.
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From: Texas! Ya mean there's someplace else?
CH, thanks for the tip!
Found this on another forum. Note that they aren't offering a fix for the water funneling down the harness, but only for preventing it from "bridging" the system relay contacts, aka shorting the contacts, and causing corrosion. I'm going to look at the harness where it feeds the fuse & relay blocks. Maybe there's a way to build a dam that will cause the water to shed off before it gets to the blocks.
Service Bulletin TT322
July 26, 2007
2007 XL Models with Discharged Batteries or Very Low Voltage
Harley-Davidson has found some ’07 Sportsters where the batteries are going dead after a night of sitting. The root cause is water intrusion. Water can run down the harness, funnel into the fuse block area, and then bridge the system relay contacts. The system relay has constant power available on the 30 terminal.
When the system relay is activated, power goes to the ECM, and then the ECM sends power out to the IAC. The IAC will then run until the battery is fully discharged.
To prevent this issue, Electrical Contact Lubricant (p/n 99861-02) can be placed on the terminals and base of the system relay, and the receptacles at the fuse block. This will create a water barrier once the relay is installed into the fuse block.
Motorcycles exhibiting this condition could also have corrosion present, and if necessary, should have the relay terminals and receptacles cleaned with a wire brush or replaced.
Found this on another forum. Note that they aren't offering a fix for the water funneling down the harness, but only for preventing it from "bridging" the system relay contacts, aka shorting the contacts, and causing corrosion. I'm going to look at the harness where it feeds the fuse & relay blocks. Maybe there's a way to build a dam that will cause the water to shed off before it gets to the blocks.
Service Bulletin TT322
July 26, 2007
2007 XL Models with Discharged Batteries or Very Low Voltage
Harley-Davidson has found some ’07 Sportsters where the batteries are going dead after a night of sitting. The root cause is water intrusion. Water can run down the harness, funnel into the fuse block area, and then bridge the system relay contacts. The system relay has constant power available on the 30 terminal.
When the system relay is activated, power goes to the ECM, and then the ECM sends power out to the IAC. The IAC will then run until the battery is fully discharged.
To prevent this issue, Electrical Contact Lubricant (p/n 99861-02) can be placed on the terminals and base of the system relay, and the receptacles at the fuse block. This will create a water barrier once the relay is installed into the fuse block.
Motorcycles exhibiting this condition could also have corrosion present, and if necessary, should have the relay terminals and receptacles cleaned with a wire brush or replaced.
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