DYNOJET: TT AT vs PV Basic AT
AFF is Adaptive/learned multiplier and is based on CLI. Neither you or I have not seen the bike or any specific data by this user and he has not posted anything in the thread on that other forum. An easy answer if there are no AFF values is they have likely not yet been populated as they have to be learned. For example: If he has been running the bike in TT-Auto Tune (as he states in his thread) it is not closed loop, upon restart there would not be any AFF values as it has not yet been learned.
__________________
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
I cant reverse engineer the calibration based on your logs, post it and lets take a look. Engine Temp is not there and also note AFR 1 & 2 are from wideband via CAN cable from the wideband controller to the PV, not from the j1850 bus. My guess is either adaptive was turned off by the user or the temp threshold for adaptive control was raised up too high. Also note if the TT calibration was opened in an earlier version of software it could have stripped out some of the settings.
No reason to reverse engineer anything. This is a AT-TT log off a sportster. You stated this:
Log clearly shows how CLI isn't disabled for this AT-TT log. We aren't talking about why adaptive is off. We are discussing how CLI is not disabled. It is clearly seen in the log that it is not. Let's try not and tap dance down another rabbit hole of confusion. If CLI was disabled? Engine temp would have no control over when it is active or when it isn't. I did notice that AFR 1/2 are from the PV and not the ECM. This confirms that this is a AT-TT log and not a TT enabled calibration.
You are stating ST/LTFT is disabled. I am showing this isn't true. AFF might be and it can be disabled for more reasons that AT-TT disables it. This is by your statements.
I don't believe I am pulling anything crazy out of a hat here. I am not asking anybody to really put anything together. I took the test that you described and showed you an example of what you describe and what people see isn't the same. I'm not asking anybody to be an expert at looking at data or that you need any wizbang log viewers. Opening up the CSV file in Excel will show anybody that is willing to look. The CLI column is not holding 100% starting at frame 300 w/ 128.
BTW I got these logs from Andy. Maybe you can ask him to post the calibration. I haven't had any luck with that.
ST/LTFT is only disabled when in TT-Auto Tune mode, NOT under normal operation; as I noted "when in TT-Auto Tune mode both closed loop & adaptive control are disabled". The logs you posted were not done in TT-Auto Tune mode so closed loop was active, adaptive was either turned off in the calibration or the temp was high enough that it did not meet the threshold and start block learn
HD EFI Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,496
Likes: 4,789
Since you seem to not be answering my question, one has to assume you are NOT capable of working with the code. I already knew that, but had hoped you would at least have admitted it.
Just because you see one thing on a screen doesn't make the code run! There are many factors needed to make it work and the 2 calibrations that customers told me were as they came from you, both have NO Adaptive working. Yes, the short term is working but as I stated when the calibration is off it has to step from where ever it is currently until it reaches where it needs to go. When operating under a steady state condition it can go as far as the limit will allow it and in these calibrations you have changed the limits to over double what they are supposed to be! When the engine is running in normal conditions it is continuously changing RPM and operating conditions, as such it is NOT steady state. This is where the issue begins to come from, if the calibration is close it doesn't have far to move from point to point. When the calibration isn't close it may have to go all over the place and it will NOT do that very well.
Also the only thing it is doing is trying to correct the fuel mixture, that is NOT tuning the engine which is what they thought they were buying. It does nothing for EGR, cam tuning, AE, DE and much more.
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
Like I have repeated. This is a TT-Auto Tune mode log file. What else could it be? Let's look at target. What else out there allows you to set a closed loop target of 14:1 and have CLI working? Also as you have pointed out. The o2 isn't coming from the ECM through the 1850 port. It is coming from the PV. This isn't how a TT enabled cal works but it is exactly how it works when logging with TT-Auto Tune.
Either you are having a hard time comprehending or you are playing ignorance so you can ignore the fact that your statements are wrong. Good news. DJ does have schools, or if you need to. Call me up and I will try and explain it to you.
Like I have repeated. This is a TT-Auto Tune mode log file. What else could it be? Let's look at target. What else out there allows you to set a closed loop target of 14:1 and have CLI working? Also as you have pointed out. The o2 isn't coming from the ECM through the 1850 port. It is coming from the PV. This isn't how a TT enabled cal works but it is exactly how it works when logging with TT-Auto Tune.
Either you are having a hard time comprehending or you are playing ignorance so you can ignore the fact that your statements are wrong. Good news. DJ does have schools, or if you need to. Call me up and I will try and explain it to you.
Either you are having a hard time comprehending or you are playing ignorance so you can ignore the fact that your statements are wrong. Good news. DJ does have schools, or if you need to. Call me up and I will try and explain it to you.
See information directly from Dynojets instructions:
To monitor AFR or Lambda from the Target Tune:
<b>Remember, with Target Tune fitted to the bike the wideband values are now part of the ECM’s internally calculated channels (Signal Soure = Vehicle)</b>. When using Autotune Pro, the wideband values are external to the ECM and simply sent via the Dynojet CAN cable to the Power Vision (Signal Source = Dynojet). add; NOT USED WITH TARGET TUNE
<b>Choose “Vehicle” from the “Select Signal Source” screen. You’ll see “WBO2 AFR Front” (and Rear), along with “WBO2 LAMBDA Front” (and Rear).</b>
This is a TT-Auto Tune mode log file. What else could it be? Let's look at target. What else out there allows you to set a closed loop target of 14:1 and have CLI working? Also as you have pointed out. The o2 isn't coming from the ECM through the 1850 port. It is coming from the PV.
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
I will stand on what I stated and what I posted. I will also stand on my experience as a tuner and my integrity.
Since I am allowed to sell all the products on the market. I really don't have a dog in the fight. I can understand guys fighting harder when they can only sell from just one side, because they lost their privilege of selling all because of lack of integrity.
Since I am allowed to sell all the products on the market. I really don't have a dog in the fight. I can understand guys fighting harder when they can only sell from just one side, because they lost their privilege of selling all because of lack of integrity.
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
6 Weirdest Harley-Davidsons Ever Sold to the Public
Verdad Gallardo
7 Times Harley-Davidson Chucked Tradition Out the Window
Verdad Gallardo
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
HD EFI Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,496
Likes: 4,789
I think there is a bunch of twisting of words going on here without a simple explanation of terms.
For a moment let's state what the ECM is capable of. No closed loop fuel control then the ECM will not try and correct anything BUT it still uses whatever is stored in the Adaptive area. Once Closed loop fuel control is set to work, doesn't mean it is working only that it can work. The same goes for adaptive learning, you can set it up but that doesn't mean it's working. No Closed loop working means the Adaptive will not update but as stated before what ever is stored in it is still used, right or wrong. This is why adaptive values have to be setup for the operating conditions. You have to know what all the other requirements are needed first. Lastly you can operate in Closed loop and have adaptive not working for lots of reasons.
A picture of a screenshot with a "1" and a circle doesn't show you 1/100th of what is needed, so do not take that as meaning much of anything.
For a moment let's state what the ECM is capable of. No closed loop fuel control then the ECM will not try and correct anything BUT it still uses whatever is stored in the Adaptive area. Once Closed loop fuel control is set to work, doesn't mean it is working only that it can work. The same goes for adaptive learning, you can set it up but that doesn't mean it's working. No Closed loop working means the Adaptive will not update but as stated before what ever is stored in it is still used, right or wrong. This is why adaptive values have to be setup for the operating conditions. You have to know what all the other requirements are needed first. Lastly you can operate in Closed loop and have adaptive not working for lots of reasons.
A picture of a screenshot with a "1" and a circle doesn't show you 1/100th of what is needed, so do not take that as meaning much of anything.
Banned
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 277
Likes: 48
From: Hometown
I will stand on what I stated and what I posted. I will also stand on my experience as a tuner and my integrity.
Since I am allowed to sell all the products on the market. I really don't have a dog in the fight. I can understand guys fighting harder when they can only sell from just one side, because they lost their privilege of selling all because of lack of integrity.
Since I am allowed to sell all the products on the market. I really don't have a dog in the fight. I can understand guys fighting harder when they can only sell from just one side, because they lost their privilege of selling all because of lack of integrity.
Now carry on with the in-depth details of how all this tuning stuff works. I love when people who work an art, exploit how it works. It makes me feel much more comfortable to use products, lets say the power vision as example, and do tuning on my own.