TTS: Throttle Blip Test
Cruiser
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 141
Likes: 8
From: Tasmania
just to expand a bit on Mr Wizards reply
the horizontal axis is elapsed time, the vertical axis is zero to full scale for the other variables
throttle will be 0 to 100 (mine is cable, fbw will be minimal)
MAP will be 0 to 100 but 'resting' value in the 30's
rpm will 0 to about 6500 with idle about 1000
the response to a sharp crack of the throttle should be a steep straight line, almost instantaneous,
then decreasing just as quickly for MAP
and gradually falling away and settling at the residual value for rpm
the rpm line does not appear as steep because of the scale of the vertical axis
basically gives a picture of what the 'old hands' did by feel
the horizontal axis is elapsed time, the vertical axis is zero to full scale for the other variables
throttle will be 0 to 100 (mine is cable, fbw will be minimal)
MAP will be 0 to 100 but 'resting' value in the 30's
rpm will 0 to about 6500 with idle about 1000
the response to a sharp crack of the throttle should be a steep straight line, almost instantaneous,
then decreasing just as quickly for MAP
and gradually falling away and settling at the residual value for rpm
the rpm line does not appear as steep because of the scale of the vertical axis
basically gives a picture of what the 'old hands' did by feel
Last edited by 09fxdfse; Dec 12, 2016 at 05:48 PM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 140
From: Edinburgh UK
No worries, I get the theory.
As I said I think mine is pretty good and well mannered down low and off idle already but testing a couple of maps, I'm not sure if one is better than the other (by the seat of the pants anyway
) so I thought I'd try the blip test.
One map is IVO/IVC crank teeth 7/30 and the other 6/29
These two very short PV logs (if you have MLV, or I can post a screenshot) capture a couple of blip tests each. It was difficult to get the same about of blip each time (I need to practice) but response seemed just the same to the ear at the time, and I'm not sure I can spot any significant difference in the logs.
Does that support or add anything to your thinking Mr Wizard?
EDIT: PS mine is cable not TBW
As I said I think mine is pretty good and well mannered down low and off idle already but testing a couple of maps, I'm not sure if one is better than the other (by the seat of the pants anyway
) so I thought I'd try the blip test.One map is IVO/IVC crank teeth 7/30 and the other 6/29
These two very short PV logs (if you have MLV, or I can post a screenshot) capture a couple of blip tests each. It was difficult to get the same about of blip each time (I need to practice) but response seemed just the same to the ear at the time, and I'm not sure I can spot any significant difference in the logs.
Does that support or add anything to your thinking Mr Wizard?
EDIT: PS mine is cable not TBW
Last edited by Gordon61; Dec 12, 2016 at 06:17 PM. Reason: forgot the files
Thread Starter
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Club Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,393
Likes: 2,060
From: N. Atlanta Burbs
Sorry Gordon... I didn't compare the TTS data files to PV so I'm not going to be of any help there.
Oh... if you have difficulty using the palm of your hand then use your thumb and forefinger to snap the throttle. Put colored tape on the grip and a static place on the bars... practice blipping to mate the take pieces.
Oh... if you have difficulty using the palm of your hand then use your thumb and forefinger to snap the throttle. Put colored tape on the grip and a static place on the bars... practice blipping to mate the take pieces.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,894
Likes: 8,002
From: poway
Not really, but I'm wondering if different tuning devices are using those settings differently.
Edit: I presume it is how much suck and when, and when to stop spitting fuel into the intake will come into it all somewhere. There may be a bit of when to start spitting in fuel but anything above 32% or so duty cycle on the injectors has them spitting it onto the back of the intake valve before it opens anyways so maybe that's less important?
I've got a PV and did a quick test on all of the variations of IVO/IVC. They seem to change the VE tables in the lower revs/TPS area and have an effect on the displayed MAP at idle. But it was more interesting than anything else.
I posted some info on (cough) the other side thinking there were maybe more PV tuners over there but it didn't get any interest. Mine is running really well now so I'm down to splitting hairs for the fun/interest of it, hence the interest in Mr Wizard's blip test.
Edit: I presume it is how much suck and when, and when to stop spitting fuel into the intake will come into it all somewhere. There may be a bit of when to start spitting in fuel but anything above 32% or so duty cycle on the injectors has them spitting it onto the back of the intake valve before it opens anyways so maybe that's less important?
I've got a PV and did a quick test on all of the variations of IVO/IVC. They seem to change the VE tables in the lower revs/TPS area and have an effect on the displayed MAP at idle. But it was more interesting than anything else.
I posted some info on (cough) the other side thinking there were maybe more PV tuners over there but it didn't get any interest. Mine is running really well now so I'm down to splitting hairs for the fun/interest of it, hence the interest in Mr Wizard's blip test.
I'm thinking IVO sets the injector timing.. IIRC that is what I think Cole said. TTS varies the injector timing based on RPM and probably a couple other things. FWIW, They like to spray a little on the intake valve before it opens at low speeds.. Helps with fuel atomization at low MAP/RPM when cylinder pressure is low like cruise. Tmax lets you set the end time..
I do wonder what the issues are with these flash programed bikes if they have a stutter or hesitation when cracking open the throttle.. Sounds like there is typically a tuning issue..
I'm typically not a throttle blipper except that I like to do it on downshift. Don't notice any hesitation on the EFI bikes.. Carbs will do it when cool..
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 140
From: Edinburgh UK
When I started, TTS was the only one that could change the IVO/IVC and the stock 2014 103 was set at tooth 8 or (TTS setting 4 I think but not sure how or if they correlate or not) anyway, it just wouldn't play nicely at low revs at all, just wouldn't dial in at all. One tooth earlier and things started to dial in very nicely.
Just playing for my own amusement and learning I have a map with IVO opening one tooth earlier still. Between tooth 6 and 7 I struggle to feel or hear much difference, but think I favour the earlier tooth.
Now whether that is affecting higher loads and peak torque/HP I don't know, I don't have a dyno. I don't think by much if any tho.
PS I've got an FP3 that can change IVO/IVC, and the PV logs the data
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 140
From: Edinburgh UK
Sorry Gordon... I didn't compare the TTS data files to PV so I'm not going to be of any help there.
Oh... if you have difficulty using the palm of your hand then use your thumb and forefinger to snap the throttle. Put colored tape on the grip and a static place on the bars... practice blipping to mate the take pieces.
Oh... if you have difficulty using the palm of your hand then use your thumb and forefinger to snap the throttle. Put colored tape on the grip and a static place on the bars... practice blipping to mate the take pieces.
Short of improving my blip technique to better compare like with like, the interesting bit for me was I couldn't see much of a difference between two IVO settings.
Already good tune on the right, one IVO setting earlier on the left
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 140
From: Edinburgh UK
Maybe if we keep talking about it, DJ will finally let us all change them just like FP3 and TTS
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Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 140
From: Edinburgh UK
Good spot, I put it down to log sample timing and that skewed data that Steve mentioned a while back and differences between tuning devices (TTS for me next bike )
After all, the bike can't possibly be psychic ...can it?
)After all, the bike can't possibly be psychic ...can it?