Anyone Running PV Target tune?
Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 172
Likes: 1
From: Woodinville, WA
You can, and probably should Autotune. The nice part about Autotuning with the TT is it won't change your AFR's when you Autotune. Using the basic narrow bands, the PV changes them to 14.6 for the session. The AT 110 changes them to 13.0 for the session. The TT leaves them at whatever you have them set at.
Also, the TT doesn't learn or improve your tune as you ride. It's an interface to the ECM that allows you to use wideband O2's in lieu of narrow bands. Any learning or trims being done, are being done by the ECM.
So, to improve things go ahead and Autotune your TT enabled tune. Keep in mind the PV will change the tune file name when autotuning so don't lose track of it.
FM converted my current tune and when I got it back I did a couple autotune sessions and saw very little change, which is good. My complete AFR table was in open loop prior to the TT. Now it's all closed loop and the thing runs great. I'm very pleased with it so far.
Also, the TT doesn't learn or improve your tune as you ride. It's an interface to the ECM that allows you to use wideband O2's in lieu of narrow bands. Any learning or trims being done, are being done by the ECM.
So, to improve things go ahead and Autotune your TT enabled tune. Keep in mind the PV will change the tune file name when autotuning so don't lose track of it.
FM converted my current tune and when I got it back I did a couple autotune sessions and saw very little change, which is good. My complete AFR table was in open loop prior to the TT. Now it's all closed loop and the thing runs great. I'm very pleased with it so far.
Road Captain
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 615
Likes: 36
From: tx
I'll try and answer the questions. The map is a map they sent for my bike. The previous tune was using Direct link and was not sent in for conversion.
I called fuel moto a couple of says ago and verified they said not to turn on the AT. They say the TT will find it's sweet spot on it's own by making adjustments on the fly.
There is a function in the PV to turn on Target tune logging or auto tune.
I want to log the changes so I can send Jamie the MAP to determine if I have something going on. I changed to PV and Fuel moto because I felt like the bike had a pinging or detonation issue with the previous tune but it may be something else because the bike is still making noise at 3k with the new tuning. I am wondering if I have a spark knock issue. Maybe bad plug wires. I have ordered new wires just to rule it out. I would like to log just to verify the tune is not the issue before moving on to other possible causes.
Again it sounds like rocks hitting the tank. I just wonder if the baffle or something is rattling and mimicking the sound
I called fuel moto a couple of says ago and verified they said not to turn on the AT. They say the TT will find it's sweet spot on it's own by making adjustments on the fly.
There is a function in the PV to turn on Target tune logging or auto tune.
I want to log the changes so I can send Jamie the MAP to determine if I have something going on. I changed to PV and Fuel moto because I felt like the bike had a pinging or detonation issue with the previous tune but it may be something else because the bike is still making noise at 3k with the new tuning. I am wondering if I have a spark knock issue. Maybe bad plug wires. I have ordered new wires just to rule it out. I would like to log just to verify the tune is not the issue before moving on to other possible causes.
Again it sounds like rocks hitting the tank. I just wonder if the baffle or something is rattling and mimicking the sound
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,579
Likes: 144
From: SC
Target tune help
I have used target tune with the same cams. I saved all the tune map files from my power vision to my computer in a "pre target tune" folder. Then I used WinPV software and connected the power vision via USB cable, and deleted all the tunes from my power vision eight slots. Then I went to the update client and updated the WinPV software to the latest version. Then I updated the power vision to the latest version. I hope you have updated both as well. I had Jamie send me a target tune map. It has TT in the file name. I downloaded the map from email and saved it in a target tune file folder to keep it separate. Then I sent the tune to my power vision. Then I installed the target tune kit. Then I loaded the TT tune into the ECM. The bike idles, pulls, and overall runs effortlessly.
You ask what the values are set at. How familiar are you with the WinPV software? WinPV software gives soooooo much access to tables that it is scary. CAUTION, don't go changing stuff if you're not familiar or sure what the changes are and affect. Open the software on the computer, open the target tune map file from fuel moto, click on the tree on the left side. You'll find the AFR lambda table. These are set values the target tune will achieve.
If you auto tune your map tune file, you can save that as a new file, then retrieve it using USB and open it to compare it to the initial map. You can look at the VE table for front cylinder and use the delta feature to see the differences. Same for rear.
The more I autotuned, I kept reloading in the previous autotune file to continue to refine the VE tables with target tune. The better the VE tables are dialed in, the easier the target tune works because the adjustments on the fly are minimized. Target tune adjusts the actual AFR to the set AFR in split second real time.
If you have the power vision mounted on the bike, go to gages, and set up live channels for set AFR as lambda, then set another channel for front cylinder AFR and a third channel for rear cylinder AFR. The actual values will drive to the set value as you ride and throttle the bike.
For the pinging you describe, you can check and change the timing table values in areas you experience ping. These bikes ping on front cylinder in the 2500-3000 range, 40-75 kpa MAP. You can back some timing out on the front timing table if need be. Also, you can adjust ECM timing retard as a function of cylinder temperature too in the timing tree folder. Your specific geographical location and altitude may be affecting any ping you hear. Gas mixture is a factor too.
You can compare two maps at a time in WinPV software. Some of the tables that are different will be evident with the yellow triangle warning symbol. These may clue you in on where to look.
I thought my autotune basic was nice, but it just simply can't compare to wide band tuning and target tune. It's night and day difference in how the bike runs!
You ask what the values are set at. How familiar are you with the WinPV software? WinPV software gives soooooo much access to tables that it is scary. CAUTION, don't go changing stuff if you're not familiar or sure what the changes are and affect. Open the software on the computer, open the target tune map file from fuel moto, click on the tree on the left side. You'll find the AFR lambda table. These are set values the target tune will achieve.
If you auto tune your map tune file, you can save that as a new file, then retrieve it using USB and open it to compare it to the initial map. You can look at the VE table for front cylinder and use the delta feature to see the differences. Same for rear.
The more I autotuned, I kept reloading in the previous autotune file to continue to refine the VE tables with target tune. The better the VE tables are dialed in, the easier the target tune works because the adjustments on the fly are minimized. Target tune adjusts the actual AFR to the set AFR in split second real time.
If you have the power vision mounted on the bike, go to gages, and set up live channels for set AFR as lambda, then set another channel for front cylinder AFR and a third channel for rear cylinder AFR. The actual values will drive to the set value as you ride and throttle the bike.
For the pinging you describe, you can check and change the timing table values in areas you experience ping. These bikes ping on front cylinder in the 2500-3000 range, 40-75 kpa MAP. You can back some timing out on the front timing table if need be. Also, you can adjust ECM timing retard as a function of cylinder temperature too in the timing tree folder. Your specific geographical location and altitude may be affecting any ping you hear. Gas mixture is a factor too.
You can compare two maps at a time in WinPV software. Some of the tables that are different will be evident with the yellow triangle warning symbol. These may clue you in on where to look.
I thought my autotune basic was nice, but it just simply can't compare to wide band tuning and target tune. It's night and day difference in how the bike runs!
Thread Starter
|
Road Captain
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 579
Likes: 38
From: Texas
I have used target tune with the same cams. I saved all the tune map files from my power vision to my computer in a "pre target tune" folder. Then I used WinPV software and connected the power vision via USB cable, and deleted all the tunes from my power vision eight slots. Then I went to the update client and updated the WinPV software to the latest version. Then I updated the power vision to the latest version. I hope you have updated both as well. I had Jamie send me a target tune map. It has TT in the file name. I downloaded the map from email and saved it in a target tune file folder to keep it separate. Then I sent the tune to my power vision. Then I installed the target tune kit. Then I loaded the TT tune into the ECM. The bike idles, pulls, and overall runs effortlessly.
You ask what the values are set at. How familiar are you with the WinPV software? WinPV software gives soooooo much access to tables that it is scary. CAUTION, don't go changing stuff if you're not familiar or sure what the changes are and affect. Open the software on the computer, open the target tune map file from fuel moto, click on the tree on the left side. You'll find the AFR lambda table. These are set values the target tune will achieve.
If you auto tune your map tune file, you can save that as a new file, then retrieve it using USB and open it to compare it to the initial map. You can look at the VE table for front cylinder and use the delta feature to see the differences. Same for rear.
The more I autotuned, I kept reloading in the previous autotune file to continue to refine the VE tables with target tune. The better the VE tables are dialed in, the easier the target tune works because the adjustments on the fly are minimized. Target tune adjusts the actual AFR to the set AFR in split second real time.
If you have the power vision mounted on the bike, go to gages, and set up live channels for set AFR as lambda, then set another channel for front cylinder AFR and a third channel for rear cylinder AFR. The actual values will drive to the set value as you ride and throttle the bike.
For the pinging you describe, you can check and change the timing table values in areas you experience ping. These bikes ping on front cylinder in the 2500-3000 range, 40-75 kpa MAP. You can back some timing out on the front timing table if need be. Also, you can adjust ECM timing retard as a function of cylinder temperature too in the timing tree folder. Your specific geographical location and altitude may be affecting any ping you hear. Gas mixture is a factor too.
You can compare two maps at a time in WinPV software. Some of the tables that are different will be evident with the yellow triangle warning symbol. These may clue you in on where to look.
I thought my autotune basic was nice, but it just simply can't compare to wide band tuning and target tune. It's night and day difference in how the bike runs!
You ask what the values are set at. How familiar are you with the WinPV software? WinPV software gives soooooo much access to tables that it is scary. CAUTION, don't go changing stuff if you're not familiar or sure what the changes are and affect. Open the software on the computer, open the target tune map file from fuel moto, click on the tree on the left side. You'll find the AFR lambda table. These are set values the target tune will achieve.
If you auto tune your map tune file, you can save that as a new file, then retrieve it using USB and open it to compare it to the initial map. You can look at the VE table for front cylinder and use the delta feature to see the differences. Same for rear.
The more I autotuned, I kept reloading in the previous autotune file to continue to refine the VE tables with target tune. The better the VE tables are dialed in, the easier the target tune works because the adjustments on the fly are minimized. Target tune adjusts the actual AFR to the set AFR in split second real time.
If you have the power vision mounted on the bike, go to gages, and set up live channels for set AFR as lambda, then set another channel for front cylinder AFR and a third channel for rear cylinder AFR. The actual values will drive to the set value as you ride and throttle the bike.
For the pinging you describe, you can check and change the timing table values in areas you experience ping. These bikes ping on front cylinder in the 2500-3000 range, 40-75 kpa MAP. You can back some timing out on the front timing table if need be. Also, you can adjust ECM timing retard as a function of cylinder temperature too in the timing tree folder. Your specific geographical location and altitude may be affecting any ping you hear. Gas mixture is a factor too.
You can compare two maps at a time in WinPV software. Some of the tables that are different will be evident with the yellow triangle warning symbol. These may clue you in on where to look.
I thought my autotune basic was nice, but it just simply can't compare to wide band tuning and target tune. It's night and day difference in how the bike runs!
Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 220
Likes: 4
From: Orlando
I have used target tune with the same cams. I saved all the tune map files from my power vision to my computer in a "pre target tune" folder. Then I used WinPV software and connected the power vision via USB cable, and deleted all the tunes from my power vision eight slots. Then I went to the update client and updated the WinPV software to the latest version. Then I updated the power vision to the latest version. I hope you have updated both as well. I had Jamie send me a target tune map. It has TT in the file name. I downloaded the map from email and saved it in a target tune file folder to keep it separate. Then I sent the tune to my power vision. Then I installed the target tune kit. Then I loaded the TT tune into the ECM. The bike idles, pulls, and overall runs effortlessly.
You ask what the values are set at. How familiar are you with the WinPV software? WinPV software gives soooooo much access to tables that it is scary. CAUTION, don't go changing stuff if you're not familiar or sure what the changes are and affect. Open the software on the computer, open the target tune map file from fuel moto, click on the tree on the left side. You'll find the AFR lambda table. These are set values the target tune will achieve.
If you auto tune your map tune file, you can save that as a new file, then retrieve it using USB and open it to compare it to the initial map. You can look at the VE table for front cylinder and use the delta feature to see the differences. Same for rear.
The more I autotuned, I kept reloading in the previous autotune file to continue to refine the VE tables with target tune. The better the VE tables are dialed in, the easier the target tune works because the adjustments on the fly are minimized. Target tune adjusts the actual AFR to the set AFR in split second real time.
If you have the power vision mounted on the bike, go to gages, and set up live channels for set AFR as lambda, then set another channel for front cylinder AFR and a third channel for rear cylinder AFR. The actual values will drive to the set value as you ride and throttle the bike.
For the pinging you describe, you can check and change the timing table values in areas you experience ping. These bikes ping on front cylinder in the 2500-3000 range, 40-75 kpa MAP. You can back some timing out on the front timing table if need be. Also, you can adjust ECM timing retard as a function of cylinder temperature too in the timing tree folder. Your specific geographical location and altitude may be affecting any ping you hear. Gas mixture is a factor too.
You can compare two maps at a time in WinPV software. Some of the tables that are different will be evident with the yellow triangle warning symbol. These may clue you in on where to look.
I thought my autotune basic was nice, but it just simply can't compare to wide band tuning and target tune. It's night and day difference in how the bike runs!
You ask what the values are set at. How familiar are you with the WinPV software? WinPV software gives soooooo much access to tables that it is scary. CAUTION, don't go changing stuff if you're not familiar or sure what the changes are and affect. Open the software on the computer, open the target tune map file from fuel moto, click on the tree on the left side. You'll find the AFR lambda table. These are set values the target tune will achieve.
If you auto tune your map tune file, you can save that as a new file, then retrieve it using USB and open it to compare it to the initial map. You can look at the VE table for front cylinder and use the delta feature to see the differences. Same for rear.
The more I autotuned, I kept reloading in the previous autotune file to continue to refine the VE tables with target tune. The better the VE tables are dialed in, the easier the target tune works because the adjustments on the fly are minimized. Target tune adjusts the actual AFR to the set AFR in split second real time.
If you have the power vision mounted on the bike, go to gages, and set up live channels for set AFR as lambda, then set another channel for front cylinder AFR and a third channel for rear cylinder AFR. The actual values will drive to the set value as you ride and throttle the bike.
For the pinging you describe, you can check and change the timing table values in areas you experience ping. These bikes ping on front cylinder in the 2500-3000 range, 40-75 kpa MAP. You can back some timing out on the front timing table if need be. Also, you can adjust ECM timing retard as a function of cylinder temperature too in the timing tree folder. Your specific geographical location and altitude may be affecting any ping you hear. Gas mixture is a factor too.
You can compare two maps at a time in WinPV software. Some of the tables that are different will be evident with the yellow triangle warning symbol. These may clue you in on where to look.
I thought my autotune basic was nice, but it just simply can't compare to wide band tuning and target tune. It's night and day difference in how the bike runs!
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,579
Likes: 144
From: SC
I'm thinking of buying the TT from Fuel Moto. Did you have a good Dyno tune done on your bike before the TT? I have a pretty good tune but feel it could be better. I have narrow band but the tune on my bike on the Dyno was done in wide band. Runs hard and pulls hard. No complaints but I do feel the tuner could have done a better job. Don't want to spend money on TT if it won't run better than what I have now. Thanks for the info.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,807
Likes: 1,488
From: SW Washington State
I ran PV with basic auto tunes off a FM provided map for the last year, about 12k miles. Just upgraded to TT with the same base FM map and the bike runs perfect throughout, the engine is much smoother and more responsive.
Thread Starter
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Road Captain
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 579
Likes: 38
From: Texas
The idea behind the auto tune or Target tune is you start with a map that is close and then ride in the "auto tune" function for fine tuning. No Dyno tuning is needed. Once you ride in the auto tune, you accept or reject the changes. Once dialed in, the Target tune makes fine adjustments on the fly while you ride. You also have the option of logging you ride, then importing it to a computer for diagnostics. Unfortunately my map is still off some so I plan on a few more logging sessions and then I can work with Jamie to tweak my map some.
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Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
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Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
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