Oil Demonstration
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,461
Likes: 14
From: Bay Area 41510 To Vegas!!!
RE: Oil Demonstration
ORIGINAL: xxxflhrci
Lucas uses one of those spinning wheel demos to promote their product. I rate them right up their with a magic show.
Lucas uses one of those spinning wheel demos to promote their product. I rate them right up their with a magic show.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,380
Likes: 9
From: Texas
RE: Oil Demonstration
Without expressing an opinion on whether Royal Purple is good or bad, this demonstration was merely a marketing ploy. Yes, a standard test for the load carrying capabilities of the lubricant was done, but that alone does not qualify the lubricant as good or bad. There are simply too many components to fluid dynamics to say a good result on one test indicates good results across all tests.
Load carrying capacity depends on the materials and surface finishof the shaft and bearing,viscosity and characteristics of lubricant used, speed of the rotating member, oil inlet supply pressure, oil volume, and oil drain pressure. Within a bearing, enourmous forces (often in excess of 100,000 psi) are created in hydrodynamic pressure created as the shaft "drags" the lubricant into a continually decreased wedge created by the difference in diameter of the shaft and bearing. The weight of the shaft becomes virtually unimportant against the large pressures holding it away from the bearing, but does contribute to the stability of the shaft's rotation. Too much pressure will push the shaft past the critical point and it will go into a whirl instead of a rotation, thus all hydrodynamic forces are lost. A more important test would be the difference in temperature rise between different oils and oil viscosities. Heat is generated when you force a fluid through a small opening or gap, and this is what normally causes bearings to fail, not load or vibration or anything else (leaving dirt or debris out of the equation of course).
Having designed bearings and other parts for turbine and reciprocating engines for 20 years, temperature rise and how the lubricant responds under expected temperatures and pressures are the most important characteristic in the fluid dynamics of an engine.
Load carrying capacity depends on the materials and surface finishof the shaft and bearing,viscosity and characteristics of lubricant used, speed of the rotating member, oil inlet supply pressure, oil volume, and oil drain pressure. Within a bearing, enourmous forces (often in excess of 100,000 psi) are created in hydrodynamic pressure created as the shaft "drags" the lubricant into a continually decreased wedge created by the difference in diameter of the shaft and bearing. The weight of the shaft becomes virtually unimportant against the large pressures holding it away from the bearing, but does contribute to the stability of the shaft's rotation. Too much pressure will push the shaft past the critical point and it will go into a whirl instead of a rotation, thus all hydrodynamic forces are lost. A more important test would be the difference in temperature rise between different oils and oil viscosities. Heat is generated when you force a fluid through a small opening or gap, and this is what normally causes bearings to fail, not load or vibration or anything else (leaving dirt or debris out of the equation of course).
Having designed bearings and other parts for turbine and reciprocating engines for 20 years, temperature rise and how the lubricant responds under expected temperatures and pressures are the most important characteristic in the fluid dynamics of an engine.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
RE: Oil Demonstration
ORIGINAL: swestbrook60
Without expressing an opinion on whether Royal Purple is good or bad, this demonstration was merely a marketing ploy. Yes, a standard test for the load carrying capabilities of the lubricant was done, but that alone does not qualify the lubricant as good or bad. There are simply too many components to fluid dynamics to say a good result on one test indicates good results across all tests.
Load carrying capacity depends on the materials and surface finishof the shaft and bearing,viscosity and characteristics of lubricant used, speed of the rotating member, oil inlet supply pressure, oil volume, and oil drain pressure. Within a bearing, enourmous forces (often in excess of 100,000 psi) are created in hydrodynamic pressure created as the shaft "drags" the lubricant into a continually decreased wedge created by the difference in diameter of the shaft and bearing. The weight of the shaft becomes virtually unimportant against the large pressures holding it away from the bearing, but does contribute to the stability of the shaft's rotation. Too much pressure will push the shaft past the critical point and it will go into a whirl instead of a rotation, thus all hydrodynamic forces are lost. A more important test would be the difference in temperature rise between different oils and oil viscosities. Heat is generated when you force a fluid through a small opening or gap, and this is what normally causes bearings to fail, not load or vibration or anything else (leaving dirt or debris out of the equation of course).
Having designed bearings and other parts for turbine and reciprocating engines for 20 years, temperature rise and how the lubricant responds under expected temperatures and pressures are the most important characteristic in the fluid dynamics of an engine.
Without expressing an opinion on whether Royal Purple is good or bad, this demonstration was merely a marketing ploy. Yes, a standard test for the load carrying capabilities of the lubricant was done, but that alone does not qualify the lubricant as good or bad. There are simply too many components to fluid dynamics to say a good result on one test indicates good results across all tests.
Load carrying capacity depends on the materials and surface finishof the shaft and bearing,viscosity and characteristics of lubricant used, speed of the rotating member, oil inlet supply pressure, oil volume, and oil drain pressure. Within a bearing, enourmous forces (often in excess of 100,000 psi) are created in hydrodynamic pressure created as the shaft "drags" the lubricant into a continually decreased wedge created by the difference in diameter of the shaft and bearing. The weight of the shaft becomes virtually unimportant against the large pressures holding it away from the bearing, but does contribute to the stability of the shaft's rotation. Too much pressure will push the shaft past the critical point and it will go into a whirl instead of a rotation, thus all hydrodynamic forces are lost. A more important test would be the difference in temperature rise between different oils and oil viscosities. Heat is generated when you force a fluid through a small opening or gap, and this is what normally causes bearings to fail, not load or vibration or anything else (leaving dirt or debris out of the equation of course).
Having designed bearings and other parts for turbine and reciprocating engines for 20 years, temperature rise and how the lubricant responds under expected temperatures and pressures are the most important characteristic in the fluid dynamics of an engine.
Further, I feel that people should decide which oil to use from the major contenders based on two criteria, availability and price, not which oil's website has the most grandiose claims.
Tourer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 323
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Oil Demonstration
I used to use royal purple no complaints , then the shop I buy my oil from stopped selling it and now sell mobil one v-twin and amsoil ,ive decided to use amsoil they all are the same price at his shop..
Tourer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 354
Likes: 0
From: The streets of Bakersfield, CA
RE: Oil Demonstration
I have seen that demo for different snake oil for the last 30 years....just use good oil and you will be just fine. I don't care what oil you use but Mobil 1 has given me many, many years of good service on many different bikes.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,380
Likes: 9
From: Texas
RE: Oil Demonstration
ORIGINAL: iclick
I consider what you've said to be an expert opinion. So this test as well as the Amsoil wear-ball tests are largely invalid as a measure of an oil's ability to combat friction? Or simply too limited in scope to be a good overall measure in an internal combustion engine? The proof is in the pudding, however. I've used RP with great success in my vehicles, and others have used other brands with equal success, I'm sure, which leads me to my long-standing position that among the leading lubricants available, you really can't do wrong by using any of them. There is also no definitive measure of an oil's superiority in any given application. Do you concur?
Further, I feel that people should decide which oil to use from the major contenders based on two criteria, availability and price, not which oil's website has the most grandiose claims.
I consider what you've said to be an expert opinion. So this test as well as the Amsoil wear-ball tests are largely invalid as a measure of an oil's ability to combat friction? Or simply too limited in scope to be a good overall measure in an internal combustion engine? The proof is in the pudding, however. I've used RP with great success in my vehicles, and others have used other brands with equal success, I'm sure, which leads me to my long-standing position that among the leading lubricants available, you really can't do wrong by using any of them. There is also no definitive measure of an oil's superiority in any given application. Do you concur?
Further, I feel that people should decide which oil to use from the major contenders based on two criteria, availability and price, not which oil's website has the most grandiose claims.
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Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
RE: Oil Demonstration
ORIGINAL: swestbrook60
A single test is just that, part of the investigation but not the whole process. I agree that it makes little difference which Brand of oil you use as long as you are using the proper viscosity oil for your ambient temperature range, and that you use an oil which meets the required specifications. The API and ACEA (Europe) are the two accepted testingbodies that have established quality specifications for oil. Most people probably never heard of either of them, but their stamp of approval will be seen on the side of every reputable can of engine oil. API classifications will begin with either an "S" or a "C" which simply stand for service or commercial category. Normnally the S class is for spark-plug combustion and the C is for compression combustion or diesel. The current top API grade of motor oil is "SM" which has recently replaced "SL" and "SH". As long as you see one of these three identifiers in the API service symbol on your can of oil, you are getting a high quality oil that is probably no better or no worse than any other brand with the same symbol.
A single test is just that, part of the investigation but not the whole process. I agree that it makes little difference which Brand of oil you use as long as you are using the proper viscosity oil for your ambient temperature range, and that you use an oil which meets the required specifications. The API and ACEA (Europe) are the two accepted testingbodies that have established quality specifications for oil. Most people probably never heard of either of them, but their stamp of approval will be seen on the side of every reputable can of engine oil. API classifications will begin with either an "S" or a "C" which simply stand for service or commercial category. Normnally the S class is for spark-plug combustion and the C is for compression combustion or diesel. The current top API grade of motor oil is "SM" which has recently replaced "SL" and "SH". As long as you see one of these three identifiers in the API service symbol on your can of oil, you are getting a high quality oil that is probably no better or no worse than any other brand with the same symbol.
Road Captain
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 598
Likes: 0
From: Deming, New Mexico
RE: Oil Demonstration
ORIGINAL: GMONEY220
Some funny chit.Steer clear of the magic tricks!
ORIGINAL: xxxflhrci
Lucas uses one of those spinning wheel demos to promote their product. I rate them right up their with a magic show.
Lucas uses one of those spinning wheel demos to promote their product. I rate them right up their with a magic show.
