Ping with Sudden Throttle
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 473
Likes: 5
From: New Braunfels TX
wscottwscott
Thanks for taking your time and all the trouble to type up the long very informative reply. If I need to go your route I will be very disappointed. When I bought the pipes, I wanted the bike to run cooler so I wasn't so comfortable, I wanted to get rid of the stock pipe sound. I wasn't looking for more performance but I didn't' want to loose any either. I like the sound, I like the reduction in heat, and I like it feels a bit more torq than what I had before. I don't like the idea of spending a bunch more with changing oil coolers and fans.
I don't know how much difference this will make, I noticed it when I was already going 50+ so I wouldn't think having a fan on an oil cooler and wards fans would make much of a difference, it was 105 when I was riding.
I do greatly appreciate your information and this maybe the route I end up going.
Thanks for taking your time and all the trouble to type up the long very informative reply. If I need to go your route I will be very disappointed. When I bought the pipes, I wanted the bike to run cooler so I wasn't so comfortable, I wanted to get rid of the stock pipe sound. I wasn't looking for more performance but I didn't' want to loose any either. I like the sound, I like the reduction in heat, and I like it feels a bit more torq than what I had before. I don't like the idea of spending a bunch more with changing oil coolers and fans.
I don't know how much difference this will make, I noticed it when I was already going 50+ so I wouldn't think having a fan on an oil cooler and wards fans would make much of a difference, it was 105 when I was riding.
I do greatly appreciate your information and this maybe the route I end up going.
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 473
Likes: 5
From: New Braunfels TX
That sounds like a good idea, but I already spent the money on the PCV, and the other tuners were not an option from MGS. I had also read that more people know how to tune a PC with the dyno than the other tuners, so if I go the route of getting the bike dyno that I have more options with the PCV.
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 473
Likes: 5
From: New Braunfels TX
I called MGS today, I talked to Mike. He said the map that he downloaded was from maps he created with basically my same configuration. His pipes, Ness big sucker and everything else stock, however his configuration doesn't include riding in 95-100+ heat either.
He suggested to have the bike dyno here locally, but before I do that since I have a simple stage one to download the software, hook up my laptop to the power commander and then give him a call. He said once it is hooked up he can walk me through some settings and adjust the throttle position and see if we can improve my problem. If not I will have a good base line map to have a person use a dyno to tune the bike from.
I will give him a call and see how that goes, as I progress I will come back and update so any others that come across will see what I did to solve the problem.
I asked him about getting the PC auto tune module, he said it is ok, but it only will adjust +/- 20% of the map that is is tuning from. So getting a good base map that solves most of the problem is where we need to start. Also if I don't make any other modifications to the bike than a dyno will be good for ever unless I make changes. Both will cost about the same, but the auto tune takes a lot of riding with a crappy map, then coming home and loading the map into the PC then doing it again until it is where I want it. So the question is do I want to have this to play with and be a DIY and spend time playing with it, or do I want to get it done and ride on. I am not one that enjoys working on his bikes and cars so I would rather be done and ride on. Both ways cost money and about the same.
He suggested to have the bike dyno here locally, but before I do that since I have a simple stage one to download the software, hook up my laptop to the power commander and then give him a call. He said once it is hooked up he can walk me through some settings and adjust the throttle position and see if we can improve my problem. If not I will have a good base line map to have a person use a dyno to tune the bike from.
I will give him a call and see how that goes, as I progress I will come back and update so any others that come across will see what I did to solve the problem.
I asked him about getting the PC auto tune module, he said it is ok, but it only will adjust +/- 20% of the map that is is tuning from. So getting a good base map that solves most of the problem is where we need to start. Also if I don't make any other modifications to the bike than a dyno will be good for ever unless I make changes. Both will cost about the same, but the auto tune takes a lot of riding with a crappy map, then coming home and loading the map into the PC then doing it again until it is where I want it. So the question is do I want to have this to play with and be a DIY and spend time playing with it, or do I want to get it done and ride on. I am not one that enjoys working on his bikes and cars so I would rather be done and ride on. Both ways cost money and about the same.
Road Master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,196
Likes: 14
From: connecticut
That sounds like a good idea, but I already spent the money on the PCV, and the other tuners were not an option from MGS. I had also read that more people know how to tune a PC with the dyno than the other tuners, so if I go the route of getting the bike dyno that I have more options with the PCV.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,016
Likes: 277
From: East Tn Foot of The Dragon
Before you go in any additional direction, I suggest you run a couple tanks of fuel treated with 6 oz of Chevron Techron. Your issue can be carbon build up in combustion chamber or on valves, causing you exact issue. Use pure gas if you can buy it in your area. This product will eliminate compression/carbon ping. Add it and run the motor hard and hot at high RPM range, let it cool down and do it again. Post if this has an effect.
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 473
Likes: 5
From: New Braunfels TX
Before you go in any additional direction, I suggest you run a couple tanks of fuel treated with 6 oz of Chevron Techron. Your issue can be carbon build up in combustion chamber or on valves, causing you exact issue. Use pure gas if you can buy it in your area. This product will eliminate compression/carbon ping. Add it and run the motor hard and hot at high RPM range, let it cool down and do it again. Post if this has an effect.
I can try the Techron though there are auto part stores all around.
Road Warrior
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,962
Likes: 140
From: NY
I was going to rec the same trying the same thing /Techron because like you said it does a good job reducing/cleaning excessive carbon from comb chambers/valve/pistons which he should do as you rec.
But unfortunately even if a dose of techron reduces or stops the detonation its only temp till more carbon builds up again a few k miles later.
And remember,the OP said it was detonating in somewhat extreme 98deg f summer heat and heat (especially extreme!) is 1 of the top issues that makes an air cooled HD motorcycle motor much more sensitive or liable to detonate in 98+ Deg F heat.
So since this bike is detonating in excessive 98 deg f heat thats why i rec the heat issue be addressed by installing the 2 cooling mods i rec that reduced oil temp on my bike 50deg f in summer heat.
That made my bike totally nicer machine to ride in summer heat due to much improved engine perf & overall rider comfort too .
And remember,reducing oil temp 50 deg f in summer heat also significantly reduces engine temp @ the same time too.
So bottom line is significantly reducing an air cooled HD's oil & engine temp in summer heat should not only stop the detonation the motors currently experiencing in 98+ deg f heat, but it will also result in multiple improvements in overall engine perf & riding comfort at the same time too all of which you can see in my prior post in this thread.
Happy Motoring.
Scott
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Road Warrior
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,962
Likes: 140
From: NY
Before you go in any additional direction, I suggest you run a couple tanks of fuel treated with 6 oz of Chevron Techron. Your issue can be carbon build up in combustion chamber or on valves, causing you exact issue. Use pure gas if you can buy it in your area. This product will eliminate compression/carbon ping. Add it and run the motor hard and hot at high RPM range, let it cool down and do it again. Post if this has an effect.
Not a bad rec at all that may in fact reduce or stop the ping .
But that will likely be a temporary fix because a few k miles later carbon will already be building back up in the comb chambers again and the ping will return sooner then later in summer heat.
Heat is a big factor when talking detonation esp in an air cooled hd motor in extreme 98deg f heat so running a healthy dose of techron (Concentrated version is best!) is never a bad idea to do 2x-3x maybe even 4x yrly depending on mileage riden.
Doing that should maintain clean injectors & comb chambers in an EFI HD that ensures a better smooth running motor with max perf at all times.
I run a healthy does (1.5oz's per gal fuel) of Techron's concentrated version right before every motor oil & filter change on my HD which equates to approx 2x yrly for my bike.
But if you want to address the real issue in this case of an air cooled HD motor suffering heat related issues & detonating in 98deg f addressing the heat issue is what to go after which at the same time results in multiple improvements in engine perf & overall rider comfort @ the same time too like i rec & posted earlier in this thread.
Happy Motoring.
Scott
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,820
Likes: 587
From: Michigan
That sounds like a good idea, but I already spent the money on the PCV, and the other tuners were not an option from MGS. I had also read that more people know how to tune a PC with the dyno than the other tuners, so if I go the route of getting the bike dyno that I have more options with the PCV.