why doesn't harley fix their problems ?
Advanced
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 86
Likes: 10
From: Edmonton, Alberta
I've been on the Internet since around '89, back before there were websites. One of the first things you learn is that the loudest people are those experiencing issues, and are typically a very tiny fraction of the owners of said product.
People will always yell and holler when they have an issue, those that don't you never hear a peep from. The ones with issues make it sound like it's the norm, rather than being an exception.
Learn to take things with a pound of salt unless it can be proven with reliable statistics.
People will always yell and holler when they have an issue, those that don't you never hear a peep from. The ones with issues make it sound like it's the norm, rather than being an exception.
Learn to take things with a pound of salt unless it can be proven with reliable statistics.
Road Warrior
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,593
Likes: 367
From: Northern MN
we were sitting around talking last night and the question came up to as why HD does not address the problems with their touring bikes ? are they that greedy or just don't care ?
wheel bearings
compensators
shifting flywheels
left side engine case bearing
beathers slobbering oil
the updates for the boom systems
and many other problems
we were thinking if what a really great bike harley's would be if they fixed these issues. i wouldn't ride anything else, but it seems the newer they get the more cheap crap they are installing on them. HD if you are listening , FIX THIS **** ! or more customers may move on.
wheel bearings
compensators
shifting flywheels
left side engine case bearing
beathers slobbering oil
the updates for the boom systems
and many other problems
we were thinking if what a really great bike harley's would be if they fixed these issues. i wouldn't ride anything else, but it seems the newer they get the more cheap crap they are installing on them. HD if you are listening , FIX THIS **** ! or more customers may move on.
Thread Starter
|
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 11,226
Likes: 3,049
From: St.Louis Mo.
We are talking apples & oranges....
I agree, that the MoCo tries to improve their products and respond to what their customers want... That is why they have been for years, trying to hold on to their "heritage" and still introduce new technology that doesn't alienate their customers... many argue that the MoCo doesn't do enough, because they are listening to their base...
But that is dealing with basic design, product development and their various model offerings....
I am talking about what they do (or don't do) once a product is in production, and an issue creeps up that was missed in review, product testing, and/or isn't revealed until the customers have it in their hands.... then it's circle the wagons, minimize costs, and only properly fix the issue if it will cost the MoCo more money than if they don't fix it.
There are numerous examples of issues that have cropped up, post production, that will always be a problem in those models/years. Many of them won't surface until the warranty is up... The MoCo does nothing, or develops a band-aid fix to survive warranty claims, or does a running production change without fanfare, leaving a segment of their customers to deal with it on their own after warranty. The MoCo will sometimes sell the fix as a Screamin' Eagle upgrade....!!
I agree, that the MoCo tries to improve their products and respond to what their customers want... That is why they have been for years, trying to hold on to their "heritage" and still introduce new technology that doesn't alienate their customers... many argue that the MoCo doesn't do enough, because they are listening to their base...
But that is dealing with basic design, product development and their various model offerings....
I am talking about what they do (or don't do) once a product is in production, and an issue creeps up that was missed in review, product testing, and/or isn't revealed until the customers have it in their hands.... then it's circle the wagons, minimize costs, and only properly fix the issue if it will cost the MoCo more money than if they don't fix it.
There are numerous examples of issues that have cropped up, post production, that will always be a problem in those models/years. Many of them won't surface until the warranty is up... The MoCo does nothing, or develops a band-aid fix to survive warranty claims, or does a running production change without fanfare, leaving a segment of their customers to deal with it on their own after warranty. The MoCo will sometimes sell the fix as a Screamin' Eagle upgrade....!!
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,174
Likes: 1,466
From: Charleston, SC
I’m disagree. I have watched MOCO over the last 20 years address the complaints of their base. The new frame in 09 addressed many complaints. The Rushmore’s was further reaction to customers issues. And the M8 is a huge reaction to customer concerns. Most design changes don’t happen overnight, they require years for testing and acceptance. Of course big changes are complex resulting in flaws of design quality, but in most cases, MOCO is working on them.
Honda took 18 years to make changes to the Goldwing that their base had been asking for. BMW reacts a little faster, but not as fast as MOCO.
Beary.
Last edited by GOV5; Aug 20, 2018 at 06:07 AM.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,174
Likes: 1,466
From: Charleston, SC
We are talking apples & oranges....
I agree, that the MoCo tries to improve their products and respond to what their customers want... That is why they have been for years, trying to hold on to their "heritage" and still introduce new technology that doesn't alienate their customers... many argue that the MoCo doesn't do enough, because they are listening to their base...
But that is dealing with basic design, product development and their various model offerings....
I am talking about what they do (or don't do) once a product is in production, and an issue creeps up that was missed in review, product testing, and/or isn't revealed until the customers have it in their hands.... then it's circle the wagons, minimize costs, and only properly fix the issue if it will cost the MoCo more money than if they don't fix it.
There are numerous examples of issues that have cropped up, post production, that will always be a problem in those models/years. Many of them won't surface until the warranty is up... The MoCo does nothing, or develops a band-aid fix to survive warranty claims, or does a running production change without fanfare, leaving a segment of their customers to deal with it on their own after warranty. The MoCo will sometimes sell the fix as a Screamin' Eagle upgrade....!!
I agree, that the MoCo tries to improve their products and respond to what their customers want... That is why they have been for years, trying to hold on to their "heritage" and still introduce new technology that doesn't alienate their customers... many argue that the MoCo doesn't do enough, because they are listening to their base...
But that is dealing with basic design, product development and their various model offerings....
I am talking about what they do (or don't do) once a product is in production, and an issue creeps up that was missed in review, product testing, and/or isn't revealed until the customers have it in their hands.... then it's circle the wagons, minimize costs, and only properly fix the issue if it will cost the MoCo more money than if they don't fix it.
There are numerous examples of issues that have cropped up, post production, that will always be a problem in those models/years. Many of them won't surface until the warranty is up... The MoCo does nothing, or develops a band-aid fix to survive warranty claims, or does a running production change without fanfare, leaving a segment of their customers to deal with it on their own after warranty. The MoCo will sometimes sell the fix as a Screamin' Eagle upgrade....!!
What is the difference in what you are saying and what I have been saying? Is it just the "delivery" difference between us ?
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 6,863
Likes: 3,727
From: St. Charles, MO
This is a request only, not a dig at you or anybody else. What you have just posted in this message is what I have been saying around here for quite some time, and all I got in return was being told to go buy a Honda! I been saying the same thing about Harley's reluctance to fix things when they are discovered, and the resistance on their part to not only NOT fix it during that model year, but to let it go on for many, many years( Cam tensioner, shift shaft stripping, etc.) , becoming an ongoing DESIGN FLAW.
What is the difference in what you are saying and what I have been saying? Is it just the "delivery" difference between us ?
What is the difference in what you are saying and what I have been saying? Is it just the "delivery" difference between us ?
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,159
Likes: 11,249
From: San Diego, CA
This is a request only, not a dig at you or anybody else. What you have just posted in this message is what I have been saying around here for quite some time, and all I got in return was being told to go buy a Honda! I been saying the same thing about Harley's reluctance to fix things when they are discovered, and the resistance on their part to not only NOT fix it during that model year, but to let it go on for many, many years( Cam tensioner, shift shaft stripping, etc.) , becoming an ongoing DESIGN FLAW.
What is the difference in what you are saying and what I have been saying? Is it just the "delivery" difference between us ?
What is the difference in what you are saying and what I have been saying? Is it just the "delivery" difference between us ?
I'm have no idea......
Very often I read, and then re-read, my posts to choose my words very carefully before I hit enter..... especially if I'm going to be critical
One thing I try to do, when being critical about anything, is reference at least one example to back up my observations....
I have had several people disagree with me.... I am OK with that. I don't consider someone an "enemy" just because we disagree. Sometimes I learn from those who disagree with me.
I may try a point/counter-point with someone who disagrees with a statement I make, but I will rarely argue with someone over a difference in opinion.
Of course, there are exceptions to every rule, but it's mostly the newer HD owners who have the blind loyalty...
I've been riding HD bikes, exclusively, since 1977. I won't ride anything else.... but I'm not blind to their shortcomings. Lately it seems to be the MoCo's response (or lack of responce) to problems with their bikes, that is most irritating... Many experienced HD owners know numerous examples of unresolved issues, without them being mentioned ...
Last edited by hattitude; Aug 20, 2018 at 07:15 PM.
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,174
Likes: 1,466
From: Charleston, SC
I'm have no idea......
Very often I read, and then re-read, my posts to choose my words very carefully before I hit enter..... especially if I'm going to be critical
One thing I try to do, when being critical about anything, is reference at least one example to back up my observations....
I have had several people disagree with me.... I am OK with that. I don't consider someone an "enemy" just because we disagree. Sometimes I learn from those who disagree with me.
I may try a point/counter-point with someone who disagrees with a statement I make, but I will rarely argue with someone over a difference in opinion.
Of course, there are exceptions to every rule, but it's mostly the newer HD owners who have the blind loyalty...
I've been riding HD bikes, exclusively, since 1977. I won't ride anything else.... but I'm not blind to their shortcomings. Lately it seems to be the MoCo's response (or lack of responce) to problems with their bikes, that is most irritating... Many experienced HD owners know numerous examples of unresolved issues, without them being mentioned ...
Very often I read, and then re-read, my posts to choose my words very carefully before I hit enter..... especially if I'm going to be critical
One thing I try to do, when being critical about anything, is reference at least one example to back up my observations....
I have had several people disagree with me.... I am OK with that. I don't consider someone an "enemy" just because we disagree. Sometimes I learn from those who disagree with me.
I may try a point/counter-point with someone who disagrees with a statement I make, but I will rarely argue with someone over a difference in opinion.
Of course, there are exceptions to every rule, but it's mostly the newer HD owners who have the blind loyalty...
I've been riding HD bikes, exclusively, since 1977. I won't ride anything else.... but I'm not blind to their shortcomings. Lately it seems to be the MoCo's response (or lack of responce) to problems with their bikes, that is most irritating... Many experienced HD owners know numerous examples of unresolved issues, without them being mentioned ...
The point about new riders and blind loyalty is something I hadn't noticed too. The Harleys today are SOOO much better than they were 20 years ago, so I understand the loyalty of the newer riders. Maybe they haven't had the experiences we have had.
I am loyal too, and like you, I too do not have a blind eye towards the issues. But I am learning that you have to accept that they do have issues if you are going to be an owner.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,159
Likes: 11,249
From: San Diego, CA
For an example--- a guy posted his opinion on a modification. Several didn't think it was a good idea, and posted their opinions... he took it real personal and started arguing. He kept restating & defending his opinion... he went on & on about nobody is gonna push him around, and when he is challenged he's going to defend himself... I thought it was rather embarrassing to get so worked up over an opinion on a public forum.. someone will ALWAYS disagree ... I haven't looked at that thread since...
Last edited by hattitude; Aug 21, 2018 at 09:25 AM.