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Hi all!
I'm not new to harleys I still have a 2008 fatbob with a 117 motor on it, but i also have a new flhx with 2500 miles I want so much to have a stage one on it but harley will not allow me to do it without a screaming chicken street tuner. i already own a power vision bought at fuel moto in '12 and i know i can just buy a tune licence and away i go but they insist they will void my waranty if i use it. I have already installed jackpot 2\1\2 catless and s&s grand national 4"ers on it.all that is left is the air cleaner which i have and is ready to go on. I read today that changing exhaust and intake does not necessarily call for a fuel tuner right on dynojet's page. Now I had heard that years ago, that the ecm will adjust itself. I'm wondering if that is still true because i will throw that K&N air filter on and that will be that.I'm under warranty for another year and a half Please feel free to chime in your opinions.
Thanks in advance for your consideration.
Last edited by maddghost; Jun 26, 2020 at 05:08 PM.
First, the ECM will make adjustments to a certain extent, but it will not adjust enough for the header, slip-ons and breather. The bike will still run an A/F ratio that meets EPA guidelines, which means it's going to run even more lean with your Stage I setup.
As far as warranty, the H-D warranty terms are pretty straightforward. Basically, it says anything you do to the bike that might affect the powertrain may void the warranty. That said, you're probably okay with slip-ons. Change out the head pipe and add a non-OEM air cleaner with your slip-ons and you're probably skating on thin ice. It's your call.
Buy the SE tuner and run it for a couple of years then do what you see fit to do!
You just dropped some serious coinage on a bike so what's another few hundred $$$?
Last edited by OldEnuf2NoBtr; Jun 26, 2020 at 06:19 PM.
Hi all!
i also have a new flhx with 2500 miles I want so much to have a stage one on it but harley will not allow me to do it without a screaming chicken street tuner. i already own a power vision bought at fuel moto in '12 and i know i can just buy a tune licence and away i go but they insist they will void my waranty if i use it. I have already installed jackpot 2\1\2 catless and s&s grand national 4"ers on it.all that is left is the air cleaner which i have and is ready to go on. I read today that changing exhaust and intake does not necessarily call for a fuel tuner right on dynojet's page. Now I had heard that years ago, that the ecm will adjust itself. I'm wondering if that is still true because i will throw that K&N air filter on and that will be that.I'm under warranty for another year and a half Please feel free to chime in your opinions.
IMHO....
If you want to keep your warranty... you'll have no choice but to limit your mods to those allowed by the MoCo and use their tuner (which allows for some adjustment).... If you're willing to forgo your drivetrain warranty, and "pay to play", do what you feel is best and get a proper tune from a proper tuner...
The ECM can adjust for changes in airflow to the engine, to a point... but only for closed loop areas of the tune...
The OEM tune has portions in both closed loop (with O2 feedback) and Open Loop (without O2 feedback)... This is do to the OEM narrow band O2 sensors only being accurate between 14.3 to 15.1 AFR...
The ECM, will adjust in the closed loop portions of the tune to mild changes in increased air flow to the engine... mostly in the cruising rpms
The ECM doesn't, and won't, make any adjustments in the open loop portions of the tune... mostly in the high load, high rpm portions of the tune where AFR is most critical...
The open loop portions of your tune are based on parameters of the OEM air/fuel/compression of the engine placed in the ECM... Since there are no adjustments by the ECM with O2 sensor feedback... any increase in airflow to your engine, will cause a leaner than OEM condition in the open loop portions of the tune, where the AFR is most critical...
The geography (hills, flats) and riding style (mild or aggressive riding) will also play a roll on how your engine could be affected by the increased airflow/no change in tune condition.... It could range from "not optimal for your engine", to "causing some damage"...
IMHO, once you remove the cats, you have "tampered" with the emissions system, and under the consent decree the MoCo made with Big Brother, if the dealer sees that you did it they will void your warranty.
The Screaming Chicken tunes must be EPA compliant, why the MoCO doesn't just load those in the ECM at the factory is beyond me.
As far as warranty, once you but 5K on the bike, any manufacturing defects are going to show up, it is the design defects that take longer and the MoCo has a history of sticking the owners with the costs related to fixing the MoCo's screw ups.
IMHO it is unrealistic for the EPA to expect an air cooled motor to meet the pollution regulations as they are currently written, which is why even stock bikes benefit from an aftermarket tuner
Keep in mind that "voiding the warranty" because of pipes, tuner and intake only applies to the drive train. By installing a cat less header, you have pretty much already done that so go why not go all the way with air cleaner and tune.
Thank you all for the input, it's funny how we all seem to think alike.
@ Neggy They want to sell more screaming chicken tuners. I am in canada so i have a made for canada bike. They don't even install the tribeam rear fender extension light at the bottom of the rear fender. I had to buy one for 160 and put it on there mysewlf @EdwardK i feel that is the way to go also.As Neggy stated most deffects come out in the first 5K so I am half way there already! I shall force myself to wait anothe 2500K @EdandGrace as long as i haven't changed both the pipes and the air cleaner i'm quite safe. but I appreciate your concern. @OldEnuf2NoBtr i almost did the other day, but then because i don't have screaming eagle moco parts they insist i shall have to not only buy the tuner but put the bike on a dyno for an additional 3 to 5 hundred bucks - FOR A SIMPLE STAGE ONE! I can handle the cost but that is exaggeration and abusive. @dakotared I agree, and what i should have done would have been to buy a used bike and put the money I saved on the engine like my buddy does.
You can use the SE tuner and run the Auto-tune feature so if you happen to be somewhat computer savvy you can adjust the ECM with a laptop to the parameters that work best for you and your bike so there's no need for a Dyno tune, if you're of that mindset.
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stage one
