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As the weather begins to get cooler and some of us wind down a bit on our riding the temptation is there to begin looking at performance upgrades. Its not that the stock configuration of our bikes isnt sufficient for the task at hand, it's just that its nice to have a bit more on tap to get around semis quickly or get out of shitty situations caused by countless distracted drivers. Plus Ive never been one to leave well enough alone but thats neither here nor there.
Many of us, myself included, start with a set of mufflers, a catless head pipe, and an air cleaner to help the bikes sound and breath better. We then load up the canned tune provided by either a DynoJet Power Vision or V&H FP3 and call it good. And it is. That tune will be perfectly safe and allow you to cruise for tens of thousands of miles without issue. But once I started digging into the countless posts and threads on forums and in Facebook groups about bolt-in came and full big bore kits I got the feeling to make it a fair comparison it might not be a bad idea to get what I already have fully optimized. I wasnt expecting the world, I just wanted to know what results I got out of the money I already had invested. So I called my local independent shop that I trust and asked them to slot me in for a tune.
My setup: 16 FLHTK 103 Twin Cooled De-catted stock head pipe (cut and welded) Fuel Moto Hi Roller mufflers Fuel Moto AC/DC high flow air clean DynoJet PowerVision tuner
To be clear, Im in no way bashing the canned tune I got for a very reputable source. It ran perfectly fine and I put 14,000 miles on the bike so far this year including two long trips. I went on a 2300 mile trip east along the Blue Ridge Parkway/Tail of the Dragon and more recently a 4400 mile trip out to Los Angeles.I just want to put this out there because I constantly see people saying getting a dyno tune with a basic setup is not worth it. After seeing these results, I disagree. I can say with full confidence that the bike absolutely runs smoother with better power delivery on the road now after the tune. Its not an earth shattering difference and if Im being honest I thought Id feel more in the seat of my pants dyno with such a big jump but Im tickled with the results.
Shout out to Fornarelli Motorsports (Anthony and Harley Mike are great dudes). If youre in the Chicagoland area, look them up. Ive already begun conversions about changes but Im still making up my mind when and what I want to do.
Couldn't agree more. To start, as end-users, we don't have the same EPA/sound considerations that the OEM does. Plus, they need to build a bike for the masses, for every scenario. That means living in the bell part of the curve.
Aftermarket "canned" tunes are the same way, with a slightly different group of considerations, but still built for the masses, who have parts X, Y, and Z. Every bike is different. That means if you want to squeeze into the outer tips of the bell, you'll need to get more specific on the tuning to YOUR application.
I've seen the "auto-tune" stuff described as "no dyno necessary", but in fact, the base numbers/tune for them is very much in the bell curve. As you mentioned, the auto tune works to adjust the air/fuel into the prescribed amounts, but not optimized. I'd bet if you looked at the fuel and timing maps where your torque jumps in the beginning of the run, you'll see some drastic changes from the "good 'nuff" tune that was there. I'll bet there's a nice change in the part-throttle numbers too! I doubt they'd share that info, but I bet it's there.
Couldn't agree more. To start, as end-users, we don't have the same EPA/sound considerations that the OEM does. Plus, they need to build a bike for the masses, for every scenario. That means living in the bell part of the curve.
Aftermarket "canned" tunes are the same way, with a slightly different group of considerations, but still built for the masses, who have parts X, Y, and Z. Every bike is different. That means if you want to squeeze into the outer tips of the bell, you'll need to get more specific on the tuning to YOUR application.
I've seen the "auto-tune" stuff described as "no dyno necessary", but in fact, the base numbers/tune for them is very much in the bell curve. As you mentioned, the auto tune works to adjust the air/fuel into the prescribed amounts, but not optimized. I'd bet if you looked at the fuel and timing maps where your torque jumps in the beginning of the run, you'll see some drastic changes from the "good 'nuff" tune that was there. I'll bet there's a nice change in the part-throttle numbers too! I doubt they'd share that info, but I bet it's there.
Exactly.
While I can see why many believe it's not required because the canned tunes are perfectly safe and allow you to cruise worry free, they are meant to error on the side of over-safe. They don't want to be responsible for blowing up engines all over the place. Getting a dyno tune will always be your best bet. My background with tuning cars already led me to this conclusion but I was surprised at how much they were able to get out of my rather elementary setup.
It's interesting to compare the charts from completely stock bikes to the first dyno run above as the numbers are so similar. Any chance they put he stock tune back in before the first run or the canned tune didn't load?
Then compare the tuned numbers and again very similar.
I got a tune or I should say map, for our bikes and ran several auto tunes and we are very happy. Don't see a need for a Dyno but I'll never really know.
That's good to know. Personally I do not know jack about motor or how it works. I sell drugs and that's all I know. However I'm interested to get Stage I done. I've 2016 SGS and just crossed 50k miles. I didn't even know there is header pipe and then slip on's LOL. My local (300 miles away) dyno guy quoted me $400 for dyno tune. I was thinking to just get a canned tune from fuel moto but now I see from you experience motor will run better with dyno, I'll think about it. Not sure if it's worth the cost for Stage I but if my bike runs better, why not.
The maps supplied by Fuel Moto are ones they made while tuning the same model engine with as similar headers, slip ons and air cleaner as the person requesting the map has. I wouldn’t call them canned maps.
All my bikes get dyno tuned.
I have had valley racing
Engines by Otto
Draggo’s bike works, All tune the same bike without any changes.
Three different dyno’s and three different out comes.
All tuned with TTS Mastertune.
All my bikes get dyno tuned.
All tune the same bike without any changes.
Three different dynos and three different out comes.
All tuned with TTS Mastertune.
THIS /\/\/\/\/\!!!!
Coming from the automotive world, ALL of my friends who do tuning (some high-end cars too!) each have a different way they get their results. Some bicker about the way "so-and-so" got X amount of power, but most just understand they all have their ways.
Just like no two bikes are the same, same goes for their tuners.
My background with tuning cars already led me to this conclusion but I was surprised at how much they were able to get out of my rather elementary setup.
Do/Did you tune EFI or carb and dizzy stuff?
What really surprised me was how much "richer" is acceptable when tuning H-Ds. Some of these bikes are running on the verge of what we called "pig-rich". Is THAT why they're called Hogs? LoL.... I understand cooling, but was still surprised at the A/F ratios I was seeing.
I've done 2 builds recently. Both times fuelmoto combos were used and we tuned with a power vision using maps from fuelmoto. I have to admit they were both really good. Both bikes start easy, run cool, zero decel pop and they just run nearly perfect. Is there more to had with a good dyno? Probably is...how much is the question and would it be worth the money? Neither guy wanted to spend the money to find out because they felt they ran good enough already. My own bike isn't really a stage this or that. I'm kinda stuck in between a stage or two lol. I don't have a fuelmoto combo so I dyno tuned mine and it runs great and it's nice knowing I got everything it had and got my money's worth. If you have an honest...good dyno person it's really hard to beat the results, you can beat the investment but not the results. Either way there's nothing like a well tuned bike.
True. And there's more to it than just numbers on a page. Smiles per hour is key.
Some want to know if there is more to be had, while others enjoy the tune they have. I'm a consummate tinkerer-er. I make a change, evaluate, and decide whether it helped or not. Understanding the mechanics of it all is what interests me.
Ultimately, if you're happy with the way it runs, it's perfect!
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Stage 1 dyno tune
