Cool, so I'm guessing you're talking about these little SE gems?

https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/e...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

Think I might get a set from someone like Shop Utah Harley or something before they can no longer sell HD OEM stuff nice and cheap online anymore.......

 

Without looking up the part number that looks like the ones. There are a few different part numbers for different applications, M8's are different than Twin Cams and I think they offer a set of them for the EVO engines as well. Then there are different color cover tubes they come with as well, so all in all, there is a bunch of part numbers and you need to be careful and pick the correct one for what your looking for. I keep a few sets of them here for both TC and M8's so I don't have to go looking for them when I need them. There may be others from Smith Brothers or other suppliers out there but I just do not use enough of them to chase them all down, if they say "Quickie" on them be very very careful and check the entire length of the pushrod for its smallest restriction point. All of the ones I have seen with "Quickie" used on them all come from SnS regardless of what the seller claims.



Top is the SnS Quickie and the lower is the SE Taper Premium pushrod

Anyone can clearly see the huge difference in the adjuster end and that is what causes the issue in the SnS one, as it only allows just under a 1/4" across the flats on the adjuster area, so the hole through that area is where its reduced to ~ 0.051" for ~ 1.125" in length. With that small amount of material to begin with you just cannot hope that it don't flex under heavy valve springs and higher RPM use, IMHO you cannot open the hole up any larger than it is to start with. For a Stock engine with just a bolt in cam it might be OK but it fly's right in the face of the claims SnS makes in their lifter video about the need for more oil flow to the heads, as they clearly reduce the flow with these pushrods!

 

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Once again, thanks for your input Steve! Good info to have!

MJ

 

Thanks for sharing your thought process.... I better understand your comments now.... and I understand why you made the reference to the S&S Quickie Pushrods...

I admit that I did miss where you said you took the lifters apart and they measured within 0.0001" of each other, except for the hole that feeds oil out of the lifter.... Sorry you had to repeat yourself..... That is certainly good, technical information I was totally unaware of..

If I may pick your brain a little more....

If the oil hole (and/or plates) are the only difference between the old S&S Premiums and the Chevy lifters, it leads me to ask.... Are the oil holes and plates of the chevy lifter smaller than the old S&S Premiums, but comparable to other V-Twin lifters...? Or ... do the chevy lifters in fact flow less oil, but the difference just isn't important/critical in the V-Twin application...?

I certainly don't pretend to know how much oil flow is necessary to the heads of a Harley V-twin to avoid damage... I certainly haven't measured, or otherwise compared, oil flow through the few different types of pushrods & lifters I have used... So, to an uninformed garage mechanic such as me, the difference in the oil flow rate in the video seemed to be substantial...

No doubt, that difference was the intent of S&S making the video (and injecting their snide comments to try to bolster their assertions) but can there be that much of a difference....? Or did S&S use some "sleight of hand" editing magic to further bolster their point?

Thanks again for taking the time to educate me.....

 

This is a good thread! I've been wanting to change my tired lifters out for some time now but was waiting for winter to dive into it. Well, it's winter and I'm making choices for both, lifters and pushrods thanks to this thread. Just out of curiosity, does anyone know why S&S stop making their Premium Lifter? If they were that popular and good, why would you, (S&S), pull then out of your inventory?

 

SnS never made them in the first place! They purchased them, and from what I was told the supplier discontinued them.

 

The GM lifter will flow more oil than the SnS "Quickie" pushrod will allow. That said I like you have no idea what is the proper amount of flow to the heads. The GM lifter flows as much as the Harley lifter and possible more from what it looks like in our testing. Did we figure out a way to accurately measure them, NO, but in a running engine there appeared to be more oil flowing in the heads with the GM lifters than the HD lifters. When looking at what was flowing in the heads between the old SnS lifters and the GM lifters it was a toss up, so there could of been a slight difference.

Now you ask was there a slight of hand in play from SnS...................

The bottom line is that I have been using the GM lifters in HD engines since 1999 and have found no more failures with them, than we have seen with the old SnS premium lifters in all these years. Does that make the SnS old lifter bad, NO, but it sure doesn't make the GM bad either! I've been building and racing GM's for 40 + years and lifter failures under racing conditions happen, I've tried many different brands back in the day and to tell you all the truth there has not been one brand that I could say always outperforms another, unless your buying off-shore cheap lifters. The truth of the matter is the two USA made suppliers used to be one in the same company years ago. When the original company went bust, I believe back in the 2008 timeline, the two different plants were sold to different new owners. How much different a Johnson Lifter is than a Hylift Johnson Lifter is today, is still debatable but they both build a good lifter and everyone who sells lifters today that are USA made come from one or the other, as far as I know. Sure there are things that can be done in a racing environment to help one thing or another but it typically cost something too. When you add axle oiling to the lifter it's a very small hole that can plug up over time.

The biggest issue in the HD world is the very low oil pressure they have when the engine is hot, in traffic at low RPM's. The TC engine has a different oil system than the M8 but the simple truth is they both have issues under these conditions. We see much higher failures of lifters in HD engines that are ridden in high temperature and large high traffic areas, than we do elsewhere. You put high lift, high pressure valve springs, in your engine you just made it worse. Keeping the oil cooler, and the oil pressure higher in those conditions helps the lifter out a ton. Don't blame the lifter when there is no oil pressure coming to it, which happen in the HD engines in these cases. It's not uncommon to see the oil pressure down to less than 5 psi under these hot conditions and that just pounds the h3ll out of lifters with the high pressure valve springs.

 

I have actually installed and run the V Thunder lifters with no issues. Quality product!

 

Are Woods Alpha’s ok? I only saw Wood’s mentioned once. My local builder did use over sized pin’s, to keep them from rotating, which now leaves me wondering. My mod’s are in my signature. Thanks

 

Steve..

Thank you.. I appreciate you taking the time to share your experience.. I've learned a lot from this thread...