Ok, in the HD catalog, they show more HP and torque for the Stage one 95"big bore kit (no cams) than for the Stage two 95"big bore kit (with 203 cams). What gives? I know it's a broader curve on the stage two, but it still doesn't seem right. Would I be wasting my money going with the stage two?

 

post the charts or page numbers so we can comment

 

Sorry, I meant to post that in the first one. What gives?

 

They answer to your specific question really depends on what YOU want. For me, the answer would definitely be: YES - it's a waste!

You might wanna look at a nice set of after market cams along with the 95"..... HQ-0034 and Andrews 26 are a couple great alternatives. I heard that R&R has released a new bolt-in cam set - the 525. I have no experience with that one, but I do with the 0034 and 26. Both make a huge improvement to "usable" power on a Bagger.

 

Right now I'm just looking for some extra grunt to build on. Eventually I'll do the gear drivecams and heads, but right now I just don't have the cash flow, and I've got other projects that take money too. If I try and save to do it all at once, it'll never happen. I've got some time before I can ride again, so I am planning on hitting up Chicago HD when they have a sale. I figured if I could get the stage two on sale, bonus. But the dyno shows less torque. Why the he77 would Harley sell a kit for more money that makes less power? I know you don't ride a dyno but....

 

olgreydog7, I was looking at this same chart last week myself.
I am just as confused as you in the chart. I figured it was a printing error that has yet to be rectified.
I even went so far as to look it up on the web site as well and it is there as well, so I assume someone in editing messed up.
I havnt given it much more thought than this...just saying yor eyes and mind are not messed up is all.
Cheers ,
Rob

 

yea, its been like that in at least the last three years of catalogs....

 

FWIW: When I did my big bore kit a couple of years ago, I sat down with the service manager we discussed cams. I thought I wanted the SE-203s. He told me to save my money; they wouldn't get me anything. He also said the SE-204s were a much better choice for the same money and I wouldn't have to change valve springs. This was a guy I trusted and he was always experimenting with builds and testing them on the dyno. Unfortunately, he's no longer the service manager at the local stealership. A local tire shop made him a much better offer.

So, if I were you, I'd either wait 'til I could go to the gear driven cams or go with a proven performer (e.g. Andrews, HQ), but I wouldn't bother with the SE-203s.

 

FWIW: My '04 police model EG with bone stock EFI 88 (except for HQ-0034 cams), SE a/c, Rinehart TD's with a mild SERT tune makes 80 hp and 90 ft-lbs torque with no pinging/no decel popping. I rode with PhilM a couple of months ago and he will confirm the bike runs pretty well for an 88 and only a cam change. The cam change was done in conjunction with the replacement of the cam chain tensioners, and the stock push rods were reused, and new HD lifters were installed at the time.

If you have an '04 Road King, I would save the $$$ and not bother with the HD 95" stuff; replace the cam chain tensioners, put in the HQ-0034 cams which cost $271 plus shipping, and get a good tune.You would replace the cam chain tensioners in any event if you are considering engine work,so there is no additional expense there, and a good tune would be part of any engine work. And you might consider the '07 cam plate/tensioner improvement as an additional modification to make if you have the $$ and don't want the expense of gear driven cams. JMHO.

Alternatively, if you aren't worried about the cam chain tensioners on the '04 Road King, consider changing the final drive from 3.15:1 to 3.37:1. You will definitely have more torque available since the gearing multiplies torque faster than the stock final drive, and it will result in a ~200 rpm increase at 70 mph. Parts cost will be ~$360, and it's a DIY project.

Edit: The hp/torque numbers are included for "rough" comparison purposes only. I ride a Harley, not a dyno sheet. A tune for max hp/torque may not be very streetable, not to mention issues with octane, ambient temps (really hot weather), two-up, heavily loaded, etc. And, speaking for myself only, my butt dyno ain't all that sensitive to notice+/- 5 hp/torque.The change from 3.15:1 to 3.37:1 will be the next performance enhancement I make. My good friendKevin, pirateye on HDF, isconvinced my 88 with themild cams and a 3.37 gear will be quicker than his '06 EG Classic with a 100+/100+ hp/torque HQ 95" build up to say 80-90 mph--we'll see; frankly I'm doubtful, but also I honestly don't care. The gear change will take me out of that annoying 2,000 rpm/5th gear "do I down shift or roll on the throttle" if I slowdown or want to speed up.

 

I've been thinkin about this mod for awhile... anyone have the part #'s readily available or can point me in the right direction please


I had the 203's in my previous ride.. a complete waste of time and money IMO...