We need to know the exact wideband device you purchased; Auto Tune Pro or Target Tune. The products operate differently and each require the tunes to be set up differently

 

Thanks Jamie, I'm actually emailing the info to you now, but for the sake of anyone else that might deal with this in the future, I'm going to respond here as well.
It's not really either the Autotune Pro or the target tune. It's just called Autotune for PV3.
https://www.dynojet.com/h-d-pv3-autotune-kit-can-ecu/

 

Per email:
The Auto Tune Pro you purchased for PV3 is designed primarily for tuning purposes. It uses 18mm wideband sensors and gathers AF data in open loop. With PV3 there is not currently and Auto Tune app on the device (as there is with the original touch screen PV), this data is logged and analyzed in the software. Once the tune was fully developed you would remove the AT Pro and turn closed loop back on in the tune. We would generally leave the factory O2s in place however if you have pipes that use adapters you cant have 2 sets of sensors installed at once. If you remove the factory O2s you will need to make the appropriate changes within the tune.(during the tuning process)


In your application we would have much preferred to use the Target Tune kit as this runs live closed loop off the wideband sensors and you actually have more powerful logging ability. Target Tune can be used for both developing the tune and also for normal closed loop operation. Target Tune requires special tune setup to run the wide bands

 

What does wideband mean? Does this oxygen sensor have the ability to maintain correct fuel air ratios instantly or does it get a base and only change if driving habits change drastically?

 

wideband uses 18mm O2 sensors and can adjust F/A from like 10:1-18:1 instead of just keeping it at 14.7:1 like the stock 12mm narrow band does. As for your second question, i think the Thundermax is the only one that changes ratios every time you turn off the key, PV you have to manually make the changes either thru apply changes in autotune, or thru the software. Don't quote me on that, but i think that's the basic way it works.

 

I bypassed all these issues and just got the ThunderMax from ya'll...works like a champ!

 

I keep feeling like that's the way i should go, but i already have the PV3, so trying to make it do what i want.

 

Thank you. Out of the box, what is the stock stock ECM and oxygen sensors capable off? Surely they shoot for the 14.7 to 1 running?

Obliviously, cold starts and wide open throttle, it's going to richen that fuel mixture. And at a stoplight, trim it .

Is it just not capable of handling modifications you do?

 

I am not a working tech, nor am I an experienced tuner. I have gone to a PowerVision tuning class, and have an Auto Tune Pro module that I have used on pre O2 sensor bikes and some post O2 sensor bikes. But my experience is not extensive.. I am still very much a student.

The tune for an OEM HD bike that runs narrow band O2 sensors has both a closed loop portion AND an open loop portion.... The closed loop portion (where the ECM measures and adjusts the AFR) is a partial area of the entire tune map. It's mostly in the cruise and low load portions of the tune map. The high RPM, high load areas of the map are based on algorithms, for the equipment the bike was delivered with, in open loop (no feedback from the O2 sensors).

The OEM narrow band O2 sensors are accurate between AFRs of 14.1:1 to 15.2:1.

Wide Band O2 sensors are accurate between 10.0:1 to 18.0:1.

That is why Dyno tuners only use wide band O2 sensors when tuning a bike. There are many cells in even an OEM tune that are outside the accuracy of the narrow band sensors. Obviously a high HP engine will have more cells outside the scope of narrow band O2 sensors.

This info is from my notes during a DynoJet PV tuning class I took at DynoJet in Las Vegas, October 2013.

If you put an AFR value between 14.1 (.95 lambda) and 14.7 (1.00 Lambda), stoich for gasoline, into a cell on the tune map, the ECM will set this portion of the map to Closed Loop. It will then use O2 sensor feedback to correct the actual AFR to the "called for" AFR in the tune. If the map calls for an AFR that is richer (smaller number) than 14.1 (.95 lambda), that portion of the tune will become Open Loop, with no O2 sensor feedback. That portion of the map will use algorithms, based on the equipment (air cleaner, exhaust, cams, etc) that the bike was equipped with for the tune. You would be surprised how much of the tune on an OEM HD bike, with O2 sensors, is actually operating in Open Loop (no O2 sensor feedback) rather than Closed Loop (with O2 sensor feedback).

I'm sure this may have changed somewhat over the years. It may have changed a bunch when they went to the new ECM in 2020ish. However, there are a lot of bikes out there tuned with this strategy...

I hope I managed to explain this simply and this information helps...

 

hattitude you're not a tech but you have a great understanding of efi. Not all dyno tuners only use broadbands. I will use the broadbands to rough in the ve tables because they do have a "broader" range but they are so much slower than the narrow bands and who knows at when they actually sample. Once I get the tables roughed in I turn my area of closed loop back on. My tuning device of choice can sample with both broad and narrow bands at the same time so I can tune to my target afr table. This is determined by build and exhaust choice. The narrow bands are very fast, very accurate. Even the "large" builds leave here with the cruise area in closed loop. One thing I've noticed is that if you just enable closed loop after tuning with the broad bands your adaptive fuel values will not be centred on 100% which is one of the reasons for tuning. Just my opinion but leaving the whole map in closed loop is a dangerous thing as good sampling can be affected by different things like reversion, open exhaust etc. as we know with computers garbage in equals garbage out.