That'll be next, a Flex Fuel Harley..

 

Unfortunately, the only thing available anymore is 10% ethanol. I haven't been at a station and not seen the "May contain up to 10% ethanol" since after hurricanes Katrina and Rita. It gives 15% less mileage and costs 15% more.

 

I do not know where everone thinks it takes more energy to produce the ethanol than what is produced. We are going to grow corn, weather it is for feed or ethanol. There have been better studies out that prove otherwise. These ethanol plants are getting better and better in efficiency as time goes by. What other choices do you have ifthere is only so much crude oil making it to the market?Granted, there may be a better solution down the road, but have to work with what is availableat this point and time. I have ran 10%ethanol in my Dodge truck since new in 1994 and have not had any fuel related issues. I have used 10% ethanol, as approved byH-D, in my 2005 Standard without any issues.

 

Huh? Even with a recent rise in corn prices, farmers are getting only $3 or so for a bushel of corn- the same as 30 years ago! The lobbyists you speak of are funded by multi-national mega corporations like ConAgra, who make sure corn prices stay cheap so they can reap the profits, not the farmers.
Other than that, you're right. Ethanol is always going to be far more expensive to make than oil, and we can never grow enough crops to equal oil production. Ethanol has less energy in it than gasoline and is highly corrosive. It also absorbs water and encourages rust in fuel systems. I make my meager living from grain, but never use ethanol in any of my vehicles.

 

Ethanol is not being used to stretch the oil supply, that is BS promulgated by the corn lobby to get people off their backs. If you remember the 1970's, gasahol was supposed to be the answer. That was methanol they wanted to use not ethanol. It was much more efficient than ethanol but caused a lot of headaches with corrosivity in the valve train. But using that stuff was strictly an attempt to stretch the oil supply.

Ethanol is now being used as an oxygenate to replace MTBE which was causing certain environmental problems in the ground. BTW, an oxygenate is the stuff that helps reduce pinging or pre-ignition in internal combustion engines. MTBE was the stuff that made unleaded gasoline unleaded. It replaced tetra-ethyl-lead as the oxygenate. (If anyone is interested, I work for a company that used to make MTBE for the fuels market before it was outlawed.)

 

I agree as for the cost of making ethanol the founder of the company I work for was an engineer, former farmer and inventor. Back in 1981 after the 70's fuel crisis the government was looking for fuel alternatives . He applied for a grant and built a still to make a grain based alchohol to be used with gasoline. After he got it up and running he was producing 100 times more than expected. The government then paid him off and made him taer it down. So anyone saying it is expensive to make ethanol is full of it. The reason that they say it is expensive to make is because they are building their plants and want to pass on the cost immediately to consumers who are now groomed to pay higher fuel costs.

 

Wrong on the corrosive implications of ethanol. Ethanol is alcohol based which displaces water...what do you put in your tank in the winter to keep the gas line from freezing. The contaminates come from poor storage and transportation containers.

 

I live in a town with one of the largest ethanol plants in the world. What a lot of people don't realize, is that ethanol production still leaves the corn, only in a more digestable state of "mash." Semi's haul it out of here daily, going to huge feedlots where it's fed tolivestock. Another product producedin the process is corn syrupsweetener(check a regular pop can and see what it says!) which is hauled out of here by the train car load. It is not just the ethanol being produced !

Natural gas andcoal aretheonly other main fuels that don't use more energy to make it usable, asthey're used intheir natural state. With coal particularly, however,you have to factor in the cost of mining and transportation. All other "refined" fuelsend up with less than they started with when you factor in the cost of energy used in refining . You only get 19.5 gallons of gas out a 44 gallon barrel of oil. Just as with ethanol, energy is used to make it a usable fuel out of "base" stock, and the other products produced are "value added."

Mn leads the nation in ethanol production, and ethanol here is cheaper than straight gas, which as I mentioned, now is only to be used in "collector vehicles, tractors, etc."

http://www.ethanolfacts.com/ETHL2007/quickfacts.html

Here's a link on the new "facts" concerning ethanal. The net gain from ethanol production is now up to 67% when the other factors are considered, and rising as new technology comes on line. This is much higher than refining oil. We have plants in Mn that are now using alfalfa, grass, and corn stalk residue to produce energy, as well as making clean soy oil fuel in place of diesel. A lot of land that isn't suitable for crops can be used for grass production, with no effect on erosion as it's an on going crop, not needing tilling like corn or soy beans do.

The oil companies are the source of much of the false information in the past, but now are buying/building their own plants, such as the one here, recently sold to Archer Daniels Midland (ADM).

Just north of me, in the town of Renville, Mn, known as the "coop capital of the world," is a great example of "value added" industry. The waste water from a huge sugar beet factory is now used to heat water for fish farms, where talipia are raised. A chicken co-op's waste not only help fuel boilers, but their manure can be pelletized and fed to the fish. The coal ash from the sugar beet plantis used for railway and road beds, and is one by-product that there is definitely more of then use for.

Some South American countries are almost "oil free" because of alcohol production from sugar cane waste and other sources. It's coming guys, better get ready for it.

The main problem with ethanol is the lack of pipelines to transport the finished product. Most is hauled by truck and rail to refineries where it is blended with the refined gas.

 

Thanks to those that have added positive notes on ethanol. I did not include the points about the other products (distillers grain for feed and sweetners, etc.) that result from the byproducts of ethanol production. I am willing to pay a little more for the ethanol, if needed to keep our soldiers from dying. Hats off to Minnesota for the mandatory 10% ethanol.

 

I think you're mistaken! Ethanol is much more conductive than gasoline and will degrade brass, zinc, lead and aluminum. Ethanol causes material from one element to corrode and be deposited on another, clogging fuel injectors with metal. Ethanol also decomposes rubber and plastic.

Ethanol is another scam and I think some are Kool-Aid drinkers. The corn-producing states like Iowa and others are being courted by politicians who know how to buy votes. Ethanol costs more to produce and refine than gasoline, and thereasons itcosts less than gasolinein the corn-producting states are distance to ship (you can't transfer it through lines, it must be trucked) and federal excise tax breaks and other tax subsidies that "artifically" delude the consumer into thinking they're getting a good deal. Walk down the meat, cereal or milk (cows eat grass, now corn) asiles at the grocery store and notice the huge price increases of the last 6 months following the subsidies and tax breaks. Corn production subsidies displace the grass that feeds the cows that produce the milk and beef, and cause grain-containing foods to rise. There are already press reports of 400% increases in the cost of tortillas in Mexico that resulted in civil riots. The poorest are affected the most, and the wealthy can benefit from the subsidies.
All the oil America will need for the next 500 years is off our coasts and under the Alaskan tundra. It will take courage and the voting publicto stand up to the politicians and pseudo-environmentalists who cry that the "greedy oil companies" should be taxed to death and there's a "hi-tech solution" if only we'll all pay a little more. Where have I heard this before?