BAD GAS???
Road Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,012
Likes: 13
From: Fredericksburg,VA
RE: BAD GAS???
Keep us posted Austin, I know what your saying about the gas, but my CPS went out about three minutes after getting gas, I swore it was bad gas also, but after having it towed off the highway to the dealer it was the CPS. My 2004 Fat Boy only had a couple thousand on it when it went.
The way you described how it was running sounds exactly how my Fat Boy was acting. I would agree that it was gas if it would have ran right after you put fresh gas in, but since it is still running rough, my money is on the CPS.
Good Luck with what ever it is and be glad it is still under warranty.
The way you described how it was running sounds exactly how my Fat Boy was acting. I would agree that it was gas if it would have ran right after you put fresh gas in, but since it is still running rough, my money is on the CPS.
Good Luck with what ever it is and be glad it is still under warranty.
Big Kahuna HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 23,881
Likes: 34
From: USA
RE: BAD GAS???
I agree on the CPS. The gas thing is probably just coincidence. If it were the fuel issue once the tank is purged even if there was water in there it would clear the system very shortly after start up. BUT, I would consider replacing the fuel filter as well. Could be clogged.
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
From: South Austin Texas
RE: BAD GAS???
Dealership picked it up Tuesday afternoon, said they'd look at it the next day.
I called them yesterday afternoon and they hadn't looked at it yet. Said they'd look at it before the day was out.
I just called them today around 11:00 AM after hearing nothing and they told me they needed the stock ECM - I have the Thundermax w/Autotune installed.
I'm not happy at all. They haven't done anything and this is their excuse. The TMAT should give error codes same as the stock. I already explained to them that the TMAT uses different O2 sensors. I'm concerned that they will try to take off the TMAT, reinstall the stock and then charge me for that and not reinstall the TMAT and claim the problem was/is with the TMAT.
I don't disagree with others that the problem could be with the CKP sensor but check fuel related issues should be the first step. Checking the CKP is easy and probably takes less than a minute to remove and check visually.
I have concerns about how this is shaping up which is why I wanted to avoid the dealership in the first place...
I am going up there shortly and will post more when I have more to post...
I called them yesterday afternoon and they hadn't looked at it yet. Said they'd look at it before the day was out.
I just called them today around 11:00 AM after hearing nothing and they told me they needed the stock ECM - I have the Thundermax w/Autotune installed.
I'm not happy at all. They haven't done anything and this is their excuse. The TMAT should give error codes same as the stock. I already explained to them that the TMAT uses different O2 sensors. I'm concerned that they will try to take off the TMAT, reinstall the stock and then charge me for that and not reinstall the TMAT and claim the problem was/is with the TMAT.
I don't disagree with others that the problem could be with the CKP sensor but check fuel related issues should be the first step. Checking the CKP is easy and probably takes less than a minute to remove and check visually.
I have concerns about how this is shaping up which is why I wanted to avoid the dealership in the first place...
I am going up there shortly and will post more when I have more to post...
Road Warrior
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,763
Likes: 0
From: AZ
RE: BAD GAS???
Well, perhaps the up side is that you know more about the design and operation than their techs.
Is it just California or can’t you ask for a fixed bid once they determine root cause and have the option to take ownership of any replaced parts understanding that there might be a core charge.
Had a dealership hand me a bad throw-out bearing and tell me that it was the cause of my auto transmission problem. That’s when the fun started.
Is it just California or can’t you ask for a fixed bid once they determine root cause and have the option to take ownership of any replaced parts understanding that there might be a core charge.
Had a dealership hand me a bad throw-out bearing and tell me that it was the cause of my auto transmission problem. That’s when the fun started.
Club Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,678
Likes: 3
RE: BAD GAS???
You can't blame them for wanting your stock ecm in diagnosis of the problem. From their perspective they need to eliminate your add on unit and it probably is easier to use your original equipment to do it.
Regarding starting from fuel etc., they probably have a flowchart where if there isa particular issue they start asking questions. Determining the answer they just go down the next path of possibilities.
I don't think they are being unreasonable in their request. The ECM controls the fuel delivery and that is their part, the Thundermax is not their part and you shouldn't expect them to know how to diagnose your issue with that installed.
Regarding starting from fuel etc., they probably have a flowchart where if there isa particular issue they start asking questions. Determining the answer they just go down the next path of possibilities.
I don't think they are being unreasonable in their request. The ECM controls the fuel delivery and that is their part, the Thundermax is not their part and you shouldn't expect them to know how to diagnose your issue with that installed.
Road Warrior
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,763
Likes: 0
From: AZ
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Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
From: South Austin Texas
RE: BAD GAS???
I just got a call from the dealership and I'm on my way over in a few minutes...
They replaced the intake seal and both injectors but the problem still existed. Why they just replaced parts randomly I don't know.
Next they put the stock ECM back in and now its running fine, so they think it was the TMAT.
I don't know if they called Zipper's tech support or not. I will talk to them more when I get down there.
Now my assesment - there was definately bad gas and the bike ran like crap with a lot of extra vibration. The first thing I'm going to look at is the back wide band O2 sensor that was removed with the TMAT. I previously added V&H true dual head pipes and there was/is a clearance problem with the back O2 sensor. The sensor actually makes contact with the top of the tranny cover. It is possible that excessive vibration caused damage to the back sensor. If this is the case I can end up with the same problem down the road... if I had damage to one sensor I can have damage to another. I don't know but this is something worth checking on.
The TMAT has a three year warranty so I expect to be covered if its bad. However, from what I was told no effort was made to diagnose the problem... they just started replacing parts. I gave them the TMAT software and COM port cable but it doesn't sound like they took the time to hook it up and read diagnostic codes. In fact, they told me up front that they only like SERT and PCIII and it really sounded to me like they didn't really know anything about the TMAT.
I'll update with more info after I pick up the bike...
They replaced the intake seal and both injectors but the problem still existed. Why they just replaced parts randomly I don't know.
Next they put the stock ECM back in and now its running fine, so they think it was the TMAT.
I don't know if they called Zipper's tech support or not. I will talk to them more when I get down there.
Now my assesment - there was definately bad gas and the bike ran like crap with a lot of extra vibration. The first thing I'm going to look at is the back wide band O2 sensor that was removed with the TMAT. I previously added V&H true dual head pipes and there was/is a clearance problem with the back O2 sensor. The sensor actually makes contact with the top of the tranny cover. It is possible that excessive vibration caused damage to the back sensor. If this is the case I can end up with the same problem down the road... if I had damage to one sensor I can have damage to another. I don't know but this is something worth checking on.
The TMAT has a three year warranty so I expect to be covered if its bad. However, from what I was told no effort was made to diagnose the problem... they just started replacing parts. I gave them the TMAT software and COM port cable but it doesn't sound like they took the time to hook it up and read diagnostic codes. In fact, they told me up front that they only like SERT and PCIII and it really sounded to me like they didn't really know anything about the TMAT.
I'll update with more info after I pick up the bike...