Sorry you have the problem, too, but it's nice to know I have company. I think J&M thinks I am "Crazie" so I'll send your "me too" over to them so they know it's not an isolated case.

Anyone else out there???

BTW, J&M is being very reponsive on this. I've traded emails with them about 3 times today nd it appears they are really trying to understand the problem. I'll keep you all posted here as we make progress.

Thanks all,
Dave

 

I got a response from J&M and not one I'm crazy about. They are essentially telling me that the sets are fine and it's just an operational difference. At least 3 of us know otherwise. I'll post the first response here and then start a new thread on J&M customer satisfaction if the Forum Gods don't Disapprove:

Dave ,,,,,,,



You can quote me and post the following to the internet site you are posting at if you want to ,,,,,, I will answer your other e-mail separately ,,,,,



I apologize again for the confusion ,,,,,,









J&M Headset compatibility with the ’06 – ’07 Harley Davidson audio system.





The J&M helmet mounted boom microphones have a different frequency response profile than the boom microphones used on Harley brand headsets.

I am personally responsible for removing a significant amount of the microphone’s response to the lower frequencies, as that is where most of the wind buffeting and ambient noise is located.

When using the J&M headsets on Harley audio systems, you may need to re-adjust the intercom volume level a bit higher than you would with the Harley brand headsets, (to make up for the loss of the lower frequencies) and also set the intercom VOX sensitivity slightly more sensitive.

By doing this, the J&M headsets will reward you with much improved stereo sound quality, along with less ambient/wind noise at highway speeds and interference from the wind, by falsely triggering the vox intercom, will be significantly reduced when using the J&M headsets, in comparison with the Harley brand.

In addition, there will be less wind and ambient noise mixing with your voice when transmitting over the CB radio or talking on a Bluetooth enabled cell phone, featured as an option with the ’06 and ’07 Harley audio systems.


It is for these reasons that I recommend when riding two-up on your Harley, the headsets used between the rider and passenger should either be BOTH J&M brand headsets, or BOTH Harley brand headsets, to help reduce the incompatibility of the audio system settings between the two headset brands.

I have been in the motorcycle audio business for over 28 years and I still personally test ride with every J&M headset series we build, to insure compatibility and proper operation with the various factory installed audio systems available, along with our own J&M brand audio systems.


John Lazzeroni

President

J&M Corporation

-------

Personally, my headsets are going back to them.

 

Working with Electronics for many years, I can follow what he is saying. He is right about the Wind Noise being FAR less than on the Honda. But, why does the Honda have a lot more Wind Noise with the same microphone. The only way that this could be is if the receiver preamp on the Goldwing radios are set for a completely different frequency sensitivity, OR if they are attenuating some of the frequencies somewhere in the Lower Cord. I did suspect that they had a resistance or impedence change with the Lower Cord for the Ultras compared to the Lower Cord for the Goldwing. However, I think they could have got a better balance than us having to shout to key the VOX, or just one setting down keeping it keyed constantly. I would like for John Lazzeroni to get onto this forum to see our problems. Also, please send me his email address. We're not bashing their product because in the Earphones, we're saying they are far superior. We would just like them to try to get the mic audio a little better (or a little more sensitive) while still keeping out a lot of the wind noise. Just a little.............. better.

 

You are just the help I am looking for, Scooterman. John has been personally answering my emails sent to audio@jmcorp.com. I just sent hem another tirade not unlike yours which, I would like to send him with your permission.

Man! I really want to get these things working right.

 

No problem in forwarding my response. I'm glad to help in any way that I can.

 

Thanks, Scooterman <chuckle>. Lets go get 'em . As you say, I love the speakers. I just want the mic to work and then I would recommend these things to everyone up to, and including, my Gramma.

 

John Lazzeroni just emailed me with some attachments to previous replies to these problems. He placed this line in one of his explanations:
People who consider themselves electronic engineers ,,,, talking like they are experts ,,, when they are usually less than that ,,,,,,,
I guess we may be wrong. I know that I may not be who he is referring to, and he at least responded. Some of the info is good, but if we think we have a problem, there is one thing that this expert should consider........ Where there is smoke, somewhere in the middle of the smoke must be a fire. I can send you the email that I received, but you probably already have the same response. I told him that I didn't have the Wind Noise Mic problem on the Harley Headset, nor the VOX problem on it. I also told him that if it wasn't for tearing up 2 headsets, a combination of the Harley Headset Mic, and the J&M Earphones would make a GREAT unit.

 

Yeah, Scoot. I got it. John seemed right on top of the problem when he thought I was an idiot user who didn't know how to set VOX and volume levels or point the mic in the right direction. Now I think he just thinks I'm an idiot. Tell you what - I am also no electronics engineer but after 40 years of riding I do indeed know if something is working properly or not....; and this mic is not. I asked John if it would be possible to try an older model mic on the Elite speakers - no word back yet. I too, am tempted to combine the Elite speakers with the Harley mic but that would be a pair of $450.00 headphones. UGH!

Anyway, John gave me permission to post that response you were talking about so here it is (He focuses on problems with CB but our problem goes far beyond that...our's is with everything... I just hope that during his Sturgis testing he comes across one like ours):

-----------
Dave ,,,,,,,



The reason I don’t go on internet forums like this is because that is exactly what I get ,,,,,

People who consider themselves electronic engineers ,,,, talking like they are experts ,,, when they are usually less than that ,,,,,,,

They get a “joint out of place” because they think J&M headsets are designed for Honda’s and just “adapted” to fit the Harley ,,,,, and this debate has been going on for more than 20 years now ,,,,,

The Honda audio system has a LOT more intercom wind noise in it because it is NOT VOX ,,,,, the intercom just mixes with the music and is on all the time ,,,,, but mutes the music when they speak ,,,,,,

the Harley system on the other hand is a true VOX system which keeps the wind noise out of the intercom until the driver or passenger actually speak ,,,,,, and I think the new version (Harmon Kardon) of the Harley audio system is one of the best yet as far as function and design ,,,,, although I have heard there may be a durability problem with some of the components ,,,,,

the 1998 – 2005 Harley audio systems had pretty lousy music fidelity into the helmet headsets (as compared to the ’06 and ’07 system which is far superior)) but the VOX intercom system does work reasonably well ,,,,,,,

BOTH of these Harley audio systems would have benefited from J&M’s Dynavox intercom voxing circuitry like we used in the BMW ComSystem in 2002 ,,,,, this would allow more system intelligence if you will ,,,, being able to separate voice frequencies from the ambient wind noise frequencies to better allow the vox circuits to know the difference between noise and the human voice ,,,,,,, but that is another story for another day ,,,,,,,

as far as the lower section cord change J&M did for it’s headsets on the 2006 - 2007 Harley audio system ,,,,, it was done because of increased RF interference on the New Harley audio system, during CB TX transmission ,,,,,,

cord shielding had to be moved around etc ,,,, and I could point fingers at Harmon Kardon for not doing a better job of reducing RF interference potential with the new system, during CB transmission ,,,, but you know how far that would get me ,,,,,,,,,,

we are set up at the Sturgis rally right now and I have tested a couple of the CB’s on the new ’07 Ultras that have what I would consider “Sub-par” performance ,,,, one of them had CB transmission problems and you could not even make out what the driver was saying ,,, and that was with the Harley brand headset ,,,,,

CB antennas not tuned properly ,,,, squeals, squawks ,,,, you name it ,,,, I have heard it here at the Sturgis rally ,,,,,,

As I have said before ,,,, I test all the J&M equipment myself on the Harley audio systems as well as Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Victory etc ,,,, I believe I know how they function and how well they perform ,,,,, but I am always open to new ideas ,,,,,,

You are also free to post this if you feel it is useful information ,,,,,,,

John Lazzeroni
President
J&M Corporation

 

Below is the latest word from John on my issue. I'll be sending my J&M's back to Sierra on Monday. Anyone else considering the J&M Elite BUYER BEWARE - make sure you have the option of returning them if they do not work to your expectations.

--------
Dave ,,,,,,,

That is pretty much the only circuit we have ever used for the Harley systems ,,,,, the electronics are built into the clamp ,,,,, and it is a transistorized amplifier circuit required when connecting to the Harley audio system ,,,,,,

I cannot tell you how many hours I have spent riding and tuning to make sure everything is just right ,,,,,, including the mike circuit output ,,, frequency response etc ,,,,,,

It is possible that there could be some variance in the audio systems from one to another ,,,,, but that headset mike circuit has not changed much on the J&M headsets since 1999 for the Harley systems ,,,,,,

I am just not sure how to help you to be more satisfied at this point ,,,,,,

Yes ,, Sturgis is rockin and rollin ,,,,, and we are staying quite busy ,,,,,,,

Have a great weekend ,,,,,

John Lazzeroni

 

Hasn't anyone told John that HD came out with an entirely different system in 2006? He says his hasn't changed since 1999. As the saying goes, "What's up with that?" Maybe I'm just not understanding all I know about this. He returned a nice email to me, and here it is below:


I do understand your concerns ,,,,,, and I do appreciate your help ,,,,,,,

I am quite sure we all have not heard the end of this debate ,,,,,

Just the other day I had a Harley rider contact me to see if I could turn DOWN his brand new J&M boom microphone on his helmet connected to the ’06 Harley system because his friends said his CB transmissions were too loud ! ,,,,,

I said my gosh ,,,, how can that be ? ,.,,,,,

Have a great weekend ,,,,,,,