Advice on engine upgrade!
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Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
From: Pardeeville, Wi
Advice on engine upgrade!
I am looking for advice on how to upgrade my current stock 88" with Magnetti Marelli EFI. I want to put big bore kit but don't know which one to go with 95-124" which is best. I would like to a good reliable runner that has at least 100 torque around 2500- 3000 rpm's. I want to get the best bang for the buck without having power that will tear other things up. Need advice on a good set up!!!!
Tourer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 358
Likes: 0
From: Hammonton, NJ
RE: Advice on engine upgrade!
I would suggest using a 95" kit. That will give you the most bang for your buck. As you go larger the dollar cost per gained ft/lb goes up significantly. Be forewarned that it is an addiction. The more power you have the more you will want. It is cheaper to the job once but budgets have to be considered. I also suggest looking to the aftermarket for the parts required instead of HD. HD has some nice parts but going back to bang for your buck you cannot beat the aftermarket. I am pleased with my HQ parts as are almost everyone else here on HDF.
Take a look at the dyno thread at the top of the touring section for some great ideas. Another resource is HQ's website. http://www.head-quarters-usa.com/casestudy1.htmlHere is a case study / dyno chart from Phil M's old build which was 98 inch. He was making over 110 hp and Ft/lbs with this build. Also the torque was over 100 before 2500 RPM's.
Yes I did say Phil's old build, like I stated it is addictive and Phil is now running a 120" HQ build.
Take a look at the dyno thread at the top of the touring section for some great ideas. Another resource is HQ's website. http://www.head-quarters-usa.com/casestudy1.htmlHere is a case study / dyno chart from Phil M's old build which was 98 inch. He was making over 110 hp and Ft/lbs with this build. Also the torque was over 100 before 2500 RPM's.
Yes I did say Phil's old build, like I stated it is addictive and Phil is now running a 120" HQ build.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,449
Likes: 46
From: Roswell, GA
RE: Advice on engine upgrade!
cnn: Given you have the MM EFI, your bike is '01 or older, you may want to consider whether it is prudent to put a 100/100 95" top end on a high mileage bottom end. My bike has 50K miles on its basically stock 88, and my plan is to do a 103 or 113 using a Head-Quarters package with SE stroker crank and case done by Darkhorse. That will yield a virtually brand new engine, instead of putting a high performance top-end on a 50K mile bottom end. However, with the 120's built by AllanW, Phil, Dalton, and soon Rob (Hotpursuit) perhaps I'll do the 120.
Road Captain
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 619
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From:
RE: Advice on engine upgrade!
Whatever you do, if you are going over 100/100, loose the MM/EFI. The carb conversion is way less $$ and zero aggrivation than you'll spend fighting the MM/EFI
Don't ask me how I know :whistle:
Don't ask me how I know :whistle:
Road Warrior
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,479
Likes: 4
From: SoCal
RE: Advice on engine upgrade!
My '01 FLHR's recent Dyno run on the top-line pinned threads shows about 94 ft-pds of torque at 3000 rpm. This is done without splitting the cases to go to 103 which is more costly. Until I'm invisible to the police, orI add a sidecar or a trailer, I see no reason why I'll need more than 100.7 hp at my rear wheel. And MM is still the major HD contractor of EFI systems (but not the ECM) on all Hogs, so I wouldn't hesitate to modify yours providing your builders know what they're doing. If my bike had over 75,000 miles on its engine, I would take HarleyPingman's advice and go through it totally and hit the road! 
And I've had zero aggravation through Stage I, Stage II, and Stage III modifications. The only issues I've seen with MM systems were sensors going out and wires being shorted, which can happen on any EFI, including the ones MM makes today for HD. But, Your Mileage May Vary!
And I've had zero aggravation through Stage I, Stage II, and Stage III modifications. The only issues I've seen with MM systems were sensors going out and wires being shorted, which can happen on any EFI, including the ones MM makes today for HD. But, Your Mileage May Vary!
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,939
Likes: 3
From: TX
RE: Advice on engine upgrade!
ORIGINAL: Firetender
And MM is still the major HD contractor of EFI systems (but not the ECM) on all Hogs, ...
...the ones MM makes today for HD. But, Your Mileage May Vary!
And MM is still the major HD contractor of EFI systems (but not the ECM) on all Hogs, ...
...the ones MM makes today for HD. But, Your Mileage May Vary!
There have been no Magnetti MarelliECM's or TB's on Harley's since the 2001 Touring Models. They switched to Delphi ECM's and Throttlebodies in 2002 on the Baggers & 2001 on Softails... [&:]
_______________
cnnesseth ~ you can certainly do a build with the MM setup, but it will be more challenging. A swap to carb is an option.
There are conversion options available.
You might take a quick look at http://www.horsepowerinc.net/product...rottle-bodies/. They have a siamesed runner TB for your config. You could go this way and use a SERT for your model bike for tuning.... Then you could build whatever ya want!
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Road Warrior
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,479
Likes: 4
From: SoCal
RE: Advice on engine upgrade!
Phil you've hadyourhands around a lot more of these bikes than I have, andcould well be right, and I'm wrong, but I was told by aknowledgeable employee that it's the ECM that is made by DELPHI and the other components are still made under contract with Harley-Davidson by Magneti-Marelli. This was allegedlydone due to the financialinstability of the DELPHI corporation that was an issue (and still an issue)when their technology was chosen to replace MM.
BC Gerolomy is credited with first making high-hp modifications trouble-free on the MM series of bikes with a combination of throttle-body modification, tuned EFI mapping, and cam/head/cylinder parts that are compatible. I chose this route after comparing it to carburated conversions and find that my bike has far better driveability and idle control than after the "factory" Stage II modification system.
BC Gerolomy is credited with first making high-hp modifications trouble-free on the MM series of bikes with a combination of throttle-body modification, tuned EFI mapping, and cam/head/cylinder parts that are compatible. I chose this route after comparing it to carburated conversions and find that my bike has far better driveability and idle control than after the "factory" Stage II modification system.
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Elite HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,647
Likes: 11
From: Stockbridge, GA (Atlanta)
RE: Advice on engine upgrade!
somebody else said it first but just to reiterate -- the power is addictive -- once you have a taste of it you will want more and more and more. Go with the biggest build you can afford.
I did a HQ 103 not two months ago -- I now want a 113, 120 or 124---I may have to sell my wife's underwear on eBay to get the funds to finance my next motor build.
STOP while you are ahead.
I did a HQ 103 not two months ago -- I now want a 113, 120 or 124---I may have to sell my wife's underwear on eBay to get the funds to finance my next motor build.
STOP while you are ahead.
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