dyno tune advice needed
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Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,351
Likes: 461
From: Illinois
dyno tune advice needed
I recently traded bikes and now have a 2008 SG with the 103 SE kit. Jugs, pistons, 255 cams, SERT and V&H's ovals with true duals. The dealer told me to bring it back after I put 500 to 1,000 miles on it for a dyno tune.
This is the first bike I have ever had that wasn't a stock motor. I didn't start visiting this forum until after I made the purchase and I didn't realize how little I knew about performance and dyno testing until now. I have learned a great deal in the past few weeks I have been reading here.
After reading a different thread about actual numbers, sae numbers etc, I have no idea what I am looking for with the dyno tune and charts I should get.
I realize I am many years behind most of you here, but I am just trying to learn. I my goal is to be able to see what I have now and compare it to numbers from other builds I have seen here. I am hoping that will help me decide what to do if I want to make a change later (heads, different cams or whatever) to achieve the results I am looking for.
Any suggestions about what I should tell the tech I want?
Dennis
This is the first bike I have ever had that wasn't a stock motor. I didn't start visiting this forum until after I made the purchase and I didn't realize how little I knew about performance and dyno testing until now. I have learned a great deal in the past few weeks I have been reading here.
After reading a different thread about actual numbers, sae numbers etc, I have no idea what I am looking for with the dyno tune and charts I should get.
I realize I am many years behind most of you here, but I am just trying to learn. I my goal is to be able to see what I have now and compare it to numbers from other builds I have seen here. I am hoping that will help me decide what to do if I want to make a change later (heads, different cams or whatever) to achieve the results I am looking for.
Any suggestions about what I should tell the tech I want?
Dennis
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,241
Likes: 7
From: Daytona, Fla.
RE: dyno tune advice needed
Most of the time it won't make a difference what you tell the tech. The majority of them tune for power. They feel that if you're on a dyno you're lookin' for every last ounce of horsepower & pound of torque. That usually results in a rich mixture that'll give you those big numbers & moderate to poor gas mileage.
That being said, you need to decide what you want from your bike. If you want big numbers in horsepower & torque then you'll probably be satisfied. If you are satisfied with the way the bike runs, but want better mileage you might discuss that with the tech, but it'll be an uphill climb. OTOH, if you like the way it runs & are satisfied with the mileage, why put it on a dyno?
That being said, you need to decide what you want from your bike. If you want big numbers in horsepower & torque then you'll probably be satisfied. If you are satisfied with the way the bike runs, but want better mileage you might discuss that with the tech, but it'll be an uphill climb. OTOH, if you like the way it runs & are satisfied with the mileage, why put it on a dyno?
Road Warrior
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,800
Likes: 307
From: Houston, Texas
RE: dyno tune advice needed
I agree with Jinks. Dyno numbers are for bragging rights only. Your goal should be a good running bike.
If you can, find out the experience of the guy that's going to tune your bike and discuss what he suggests and what you want. I had mine tuned after a 1000 miles atthe dealership and was extremely dissappointed in the results. It ran like crap. Took it to a independant that had a dyno. This guy knew his stuff. It's a new animal now. He gave me12% more torque, 18% increase in horsepower and topped it off with2 more miles to the gallon. He didn't change anything mechanically. Just knew what he was doing with a SERT. Thedealer is going to start with a cannedmoco map. Their maps only cover their parts. Since they don'toffer true duals, the tuner is going to have to correct the canned map to compensate. I think mydealer threw a moco canned map in it, made a dyno pull so he could show me a print out and said they were done.
That was just my experience and I hope it was just my dumb luck and a crappy dealer.
Talk to your tuner and ask if they can give you a print out that shows the initial run and then the final run so you can compare to see the improvements after he's made his adjustments from the canned map he started with.
Remember your goal is bike that runs good and gets the mileage you are looking for. Chasing a number wont do anything but cost you more money.
If it runs good to you, smile and ride the crap out of it!!
If you can, find out the experience of the guy that's going to tune your bike and discuss what he suggests and what you want. I had mine tuned after a 1000 miles atthe dealership and was extremely dissappointed in the results. It ran like crap. Took it to a independant that had a dyno. This guy knew his stuff. It's a new animal now. He gave me12% more torque, 18% increase in horsepower and topped it off with2 more miles to the gallon. He didn't change anything mechanically. Just knew what he was doing with a SERT. Thedealer is going to start with a cannedmoco map. Their maps only cover their parts. Since they don'toffer true duals, the tuner is going to have to correct the canned map to compensate. I think mydealer threw a moco canned map in it, made a dyno pull so he could show me a print out and said they were done.
That was just my experience and I hope it was just my dumb luck and a crappy dealer.
Talk to your tuner and ask if they can give you a print out that shows the initial run and then the final run so you can compare to see the improvements after he's made his adjustments from the canned map he started with.
Remember your goal is bike that runs good and gets the mileage you are looking for. Chasing a number wont do anything but cost you more money.
If it runs good to you, smile and ride the crap out of it!!
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,647
Likes: 11
From: Stockbridge, GA (Atlanta)
RE: dyno tune advice needed
like the others have said as long as you have good running bike that's all that counts --- with an 08 I would have went with the SE also--- I put 14000 miles on my bike before I went to a 103 and the warranty went on the door; I am sure I got a good bikeeverything was checked out throughly before the build.
ORIGINAL: rochkes
I recently traded bikes and now have a 2008 SG with the 103 SE kit. Jugs, pistons, 255 cams, SERT and V&H's ovals with true duals. The dealer told me to bring it back after I put 500 to 1,000 miles on it for a dyno tune.
This is the first bike I have ever had that wasn't a stock motor. I didn't start visiting this forum until after I made the purchase and I didn't realize how little I knew about performance and dyno testing until now. I have learned a great deal in the past few weeks I have been reading here.
After reading a different thread about actual numbers, sae numbers etc, I have no idea what I am looking for with the dyno tune and charts I should get.
I realize I am many years behind most of you here, but I am just trying to learn. I my goal is to be able to see what I have now and compare it to numbers from other builds I have seen here. I am hoping that will help me decide what to do if I want to make a change later (heads, different cams or whatever) to achieve the results I am looking for.
Any suggestions about what I should tell the tech I want?
Dennis
I recently traded bikes and now have a 2008 SG with the 103 SE kit. Jugs, pistons, 255 cams, SERT and V&H's ovals with true duals. The dealer told me to bring it back after I put 500 to 1,000 miles on it for a dyno tune.
This is the first bike I have ever had that wasn't a stock motor. I didn't start visiting this forum until after I made the purchase and I didn't realize how little I knew about performance and dyno testing until now. I have learned a great deal in the past few weeks I have been reading here.
After reading a different thread about actual numbers, sae numbers etc, I have no idea what I am looking for with the dyno tune and charts I should get.
I realize I am many years behind most of you here, but I am just trying to learn. I my goal is to be able to see what I have now and compare it to numbers from other builds I have seen here. I am hoping that will help me decide what to do if I want to make a change later (heads, different cams or whatever) to achieve the results I am looking for.
Any suggestions about what I should tell the tech I want?
Dennis
Road Master
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,227
Likes: 3
From: Central Illinois
RE: dyno tune advice needed
These guys are right. A good tuner makes all the difference. Be sure to ask alot of questions about how he sets midrange tuning for better fuel economy while cruising and what transition he uses for power. You will see most tuners setting midrange and cruising rpm's around 14.2:1 air / fuel for best economy. They willtune 80-100 percent throttle to 13.7:1 air/ fuel for max power. With the Vinnie & Hiney true duals you will have a lean condition at 4k rpm that might have to compensated by changing injector pulse length. See what the guys know's. If he can't explain what he is doing, chances are he doesn't know. After reading EdwardK's post, you can see the difference in those who know and those who don't.
Road Master
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 769
Likes: 8
From: Brooksdale, ON
RE: dyno tune advice needed
A good tuner will take a few hours to work out every little kink from your bike. it takes several pulls of holding the throttle at a steady rpm while loading the bike. Most dyno shops like stated above just do WOT pulls and all that does is max HP and max TQ numbers, it has nothing to do with ride ability of the bike in general. If the shop has recently done a bike with the exact same set-up as your bike they might be able to put that map in and be really close just a little tweak here and there but if not it should take a few hours to do. You also have to keep in mind that a bike cold will run different then a bike hot so the longer that bike runs on the dyno the further away from reality it is. They have to give the bike cool down time. Most shop don't do this but the best way to cool the bike down is to ride it not to let it sit sht off. Get the bike off the stand take it around the block and get some fuel to that motor and some air to those fins. While you hav ethe bike for the next while keep a note on any spots that you might feel a cough, a hesitation, a sputter, anything that is not just perfect and take note of the speed, gear and rpm you find it at, try to repaet it again and mention that to your tuner/tech when it goes in those are the bikes trouble spots that you particularly ride in. Everybody has a different riding style and has different trouble spots.
Tourer
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
RE: dyno tune advice needed
Dude---you have a modified motor on a FBY bagger. Your tuner better know what he is doing. FBY is a different animal. You realy need to adjust the injectors, CID, A/f and many other variables to get it right. The 255 is a good cam for that build and will give good low end TQ.
AND--you better get SAE number if you post your DYNO sheet or you'll get **** probed by glideman and hotpersuit and a bunch of other know-it-all's on this forum. They want to be able to "compare" your build and numbers.....even though there are so many variables from one dyno to another....but they will chastise you if yourdyno is NOT in SAE. I say--fear not brother--most of them still dont have their own builds done--or if they do--they aren't dyno'd....that way--they don't have to face the music themselves.
Good luck with the tune--Remember--get SAe--and make sure A/f is shown. Otherwise--bad, very bad things will happen.....LMAO!!
AND--you better get SAE number if you post your DYNO sheet or you'll get **** probed by glideman and hotpersuit and a bunch of other know-it-all's on this forum. They want to be able to "compare" your build and numbers.....even though there are so many variables from one dyno to another....but they will chastise you if yourdyno is NOT in SAE. I say--fear not brother--most of them still dont have their own builds done--or if they do--they aren't dyno'd....that way--they don't have to face the music themselves.
Good luck with the tune--Remember--get SAe--and make sure A/f is shown. Otherwise--bad, very bad things will happen.....LMAO!!
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Thread Starter
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Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,351
Likes: 461
From: Illinois
RE: dyno tune advice needed
thanks for the input guys. That is the kind of information I am needing. I guess I should have clarified that I have ridden the bike 400 miles. I followed the dealer's recommendations for breakin, which was stay under 4000 rpms the first 50 miles while varying speed and then ride however you want as long as you stay under 5000 rpms up to 500 miles.
The last 350 miles I rode as aggressive as I could without going over 5000 rpms. The bike runs really good, but the only thing I have to compare it with was my 2005 heritage that was stock except for a stage one upgrade.
I honestly don't see the need for a dyno, but the dealer said there would be no charge which of course means that I already paid for it at purchase. There are a couple of reasons I want it on the dyno. First of all because I have never had the opportunity to see the procedure, I would like to know the hp and tq just for the hell of it, and the tech told me that he would give me options about hp vs economy and we would dial it in the way I want it.
I don't think mileage will be much of a concern with the 6th gear, but even if it is, I want it to run as hard as possible. I will pay for the extra gas.
I am also a little bit concerned about the fact that the bike throws a black cloud of smoke out of each pipe on startup. It is just a puff and it looks and smells like unburned fuel, not oil. I thought maybe it might be running a bit rich.
Thanks again guys.....
Dennis
The last 350 miles I rode as aggressive as I could without going over 5000 rpms. The bike runs really good, but the only thing I have to compare it with was my 2005 heritage that was stock except for a stage one upgrade.
I honestly don't see the need for a dyno, but the dealer said there would be no charge which of course means that I already paid for it at purchase. There are a couple of reasons I want it on the dyno. First of all because I have never had the opportunity to see the procedure, I would like to know the hp and tq just for the hell of it, and the tech told me that he would give me options about hp vs economy and we would dial it in the way I want it.
I don't think mileage will be much of a concern with the 6th gear, but even if it is, I want it to run as hard as possible. I will pay for the extra gas.
I am also a little bit concerned about the fact that the bike throws a black cloud of smoke out of each pipe on startup. It is just a puff and it looks and smells like unburned fuel, not oil. I thought maybe it might be running a bit rich.
Thanks again guys.....
Dennis
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Banned
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 845
Likes: 4
From: ID ho
RE: dyno tune advice needed
ORIGINAL: Jinks
Most of the time it won't make a difference what you tell the tech. The majority of them tune for power. They feel that if you're on a dyno you're lookin' for every last ounce of horsepower & pound of torque. That usually results in a rich mixture that'll give you those big numbers & moderate to poor gas mileage.
Most of the time it won't make a difference what you tell the tech. The majority of them tune for power. They feel that if you're on a dyno you're lookin' for every last ounce of horsepower & pound of torque. That usually results in a rich mixture that'll give you those big numbers & moderate to poor gas mileage.
And yes a GOOD tuner will get every last ounce of HP & TQ......... at WOT and thats what WOT is for. Thats what YOU guys ALWAYS WANT, BIG #'S. But there is also 0,2,5,7,10,15,20,25,30,40,60, and 80% throttle settings that get tuned for all riding conditions. You will get poor gas mileage when you first get your bike back from us becuase your gonna be so happy with the way it runs youll be on the throttle all the time.