HD Service Centers Voiding Warranties
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,040
Likes: 3
From: Nice home on the NorCal Coast
C.A.R.B. sued Dynojet for millions too. This is not a Factory supported incident. This is a Dealer incident. I have had no notification of this. Harley is cracking down on recalls. They want every Dealer to run every VIN of every bike at your dealership servicing or not to complete outstanding recalls. Harley already knows every bike that has a download and any time it is hooked to the Digital Tech, that information can be collected by the MOCO. The new Race and Super Tuners have this information stored in the ECM that the MOCO can collect.
I stand corrected, it was against Dynojet.
What's confussing is the Indy's with dyno's seem to have been missed for the time being.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,741
Likes: 45
From: Indian Land, SC
Yes, it's a piggy back unit that tricks the bikes ECM. Remove the PC and the bike is like stock again....Same thing with the Fuel Pac....
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 911
Likes: 3
From: Venice, FL
Negative. Once you plug into the ECM, it makes a "mark" on the program. It's in a file called "DLM" [date last modified] or something like that. The guys who think the dealers can't tell are only fooling themselves.
Although, not all dealers "look", or know where to look.
Tourer
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 395
Likes: 0
From: San Berdo, So. Cal
The ECM can act as a black box..
If you use an after market tuner it sends false signals to the ECM so the ECM adjusts the tune to those parameters.
If the signals acquired by the ECM are so far out of the normal opperating range they (HD) can presume an Aftermarket Box was attached.
It's like if your wife withdraws $10,000 from your account, but replaces it a month later you would know by looking at the bank statement.
Not that I enjoy giving money to HD, I just can't understand why someone would attach one of these tuners to their bike rather than dynoing their bike and flashing the ECM with the correct codes.
I agree that if you do a lot of motor changes at variuos times these units allow you to change the tune on the fly, but at what cost?
And doesn't the newer SERT's allow you to change multiple times?
If you use an after market tuner it sends false signals to the ECM so the ECM adjusts the tune to those parameters.
If the signals acquired by the ECM are so far out of the normal opperating range they (HD) can presume an Aftermarket Box was attached.
It's like if your wife withdraws $10,000 from your account, but replaces it a month later you would know by looking at the bank statement.
Not that I enjoy giving money to HD, I just can't understand why someone would attach one of these tuners to their bike rather than dynoing their bike and flashing the ECM with the correct codes.
I agree that if you do a lot of motor changes at variuos times these units allow you to change the tune on the fly, but at what cost?
And doesn't the newer SERT's allow you to change multiple times?
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 911
Likes: 3
From: Venice, FL
Not exactly, true. Although the ECM has not been modified, you can run an "excessive/minimum" values test in the tables. It's a pretty tricky thing to do, but can be done.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,741
Likes: 45
From: Indian Land, SC
Negative. Once you plug into the ECM, it makes a "mark" on the program. It's in a file called "DLM" [date last modified] or something like that. The guys who think the dealers can't tell are only fooling themselves.
Although, not all dealers "look", or know where to look.
Although, not all dealers "look", or know where to look.
Going to verify that for my own satisfaction....
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 911
Likes: 3
From: Venice, FL
The ECM can act as a black box..
If you use and after market tuner it sends false signals to the ECM so the ECM adjusts the tune to those parameters.
If the signals acquired by the ECM are so far out of the normal opperating range they can presume a Aftermarket Box was attached.
It's like if your wife withdraws $10,000 from your account, but replaces it a month later you would know by looking at the bank statement.
Not that I enjoy giving money to HD, I just can't understand why someone would attach one of these tuners to their bike rather than dynoing their bike and flashing the ECM with the correct codes.
I agree that if you do a lot of motor changes at variuos times these units allow you to change the tune on the fly, but at what cost?
And doesn't the newer SERT's allow you to change multiple times?
If you use and after market tuner it sends false signals to the ECM so the ECM adjusts the tune to those parameters.
If the signals acquired by the ECM are so far out of the normal opperating range they can presume a Aftermarket Box was attached.
It's like if your wife withdraws $10,000 from your account, but replaces it a month later you would know by looking at the bank statement.
Not that I enjoy giving money to HD, I just can't understand why someone would attach one of these tuners to their bike rather than dynoing their bike and flashing the ECM with the correct codes.
I agree that if you do a lot of motor changes at variuos times these units allow you to change the tune on the fly, but at what cost?
And doesn't the newer SERT's allow you to change multiple times?
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Road Master
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,069
Likes: 6
From: Greensboro, NC
This is a direct violation of law. They cannot void your warranty because you have aftermarket parts installed. If you have a failure CAUSED by that Aftermarket part, they can deny the repairs, but they cannot deny your warranty for any other parts of your bike.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson-Moss_Warranty_Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson-Moss_Warranty_Act
That is INCORRECT. Magnuson-Moss basically refers to the fact that a motor vehicle maker cannot force you to use their name brand OEM parts only on their vehicles to keep the Warranty in tact. Magnuson-Moss mainly is referring to such PM items as oil, oil filters, air filters and many other items. HOWEVER, when you add a device that changes or alters the vehicles ECM or Computer to make the engine preform in a manner other than factory specs which is exactly what Tuners and Programmers are designed to do, that can in fact Void the entire engine/drivetrain Warranty and most all do.
Last edited by Big Pig; Nov 14, 2008 at 04:57 PM.