103" Stage II Hard Starting
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Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
From: SoCal
I just got off the phone with Heidi at Harley regarding the hard starting problem with the Stage II kit. I was told that they are aware of the problem and had "communicated" to their dealers that compression releases should be installed. I asked her if there had been any kind of service bulletin and she said no but it had been "communicated" but she didn't know in what form. I brought to her attention that nowhere in the catalog or instructions supplied with the kit is there made mention that compression releases were required or recommended. She said that they still feel no responsibility for this missing bit of info and that I am on my own. I just got screwed by HD and it doesn't feel very good.
Marc
Marc
I just got off the phone with Heidi at Harley regarding the hard starting problem with the Stage II kit. I was told that they are aware of the problem and had "communicated" to their dealers that compression releases should be installed. I asked her if there had been any kind of service bulletin and she said no but it had been "communicated" but she didn't know in what form. I brought to her attention that nowhere in the catalog or instructions supplied with the kit is there made mention that compression releases were required or recommended. She said that they still feel no responsibility for this missing bit of info and that I am on my own. I just got screwed by HD and it doesn't feel very good.
Marc
Marc
There is a lot of spark advance in the starting parts of the map. 20 or 22 degrees if I remember. That's just too much spark advance.
If that doesn't fix the hard starts, then maybe comp releases.
As for HD screwing you....that's an opinion.
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Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
From: SoCal
If it were me, I'd rather pay for a good dyno tune than have them tear my motor apart again to install compression releases. Less chance of more problems like base gasket leaks and such, plus you get the added benefit of a dyno tune.
There is a lot of spark advance in the starting parts of the map. 20 or 22 degrees if I remember. That's just too much spark advance.
If that doesn't fix the hard starts, then maybe comp releases.
As for HD screwing you....that's an opinion.
There is a lot of spark advance in the starting parts of the map. 20 or 22 degrees if I remember. That's just too much spark advance.
If that doesn't fix the hard starts, then maybe comp releases.
As for HD screwing you....that's an opinion.
The reason I feel Harley is unfair in this instance is because they are fully aware of the starting problem and that compression releases are the recommended fix but neglected to include that bit of info where the customer could find out about it in advance. All they had to do was to add it to the install instructions packed in the box and it would be a moot point. In the meantime I received an email from Harley requesting copies of my invoices so maybe they will reconsider. I hope so. I am going to call another dealer tomorrow when they're open and see if they can figure out a way to dyno tune it. I heard that they might have a more experienced guy. We'll see.
Marc
Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 163
Likes: 1
From: Wash State
Hey Guys
I feel sorry for anyone that upgraded their bike and is having problems. I know it gets very frustrating. I have a 08 Ultra with the 103 Stage II upgrade (no headwork). I have PC III, Vance & Hines Basic exhaust, and Big Sucker air cleaner. After 600 miles break-in (no problems) I had it Dyno tuned and they pulled 88.53 H.P. and 103.44 Torque. So far I have not had any of the hot start problems. I have not put very many miles on it since the dyno because of bad weather so maybe the problems will catch up to me. The only thing I can think of is maybe there is a problem with the Calif. version or my tuner caught it with the dyno tune. Best of luck with the problems. I will stay tuned.
I feel sorry for anyone that upgraded their bike and is having problems. I know it gets very frustrating. I have a 08 Ultra with the 103 Stage II upgrade (no headwork). I have PC III, Vance & Hines Basic exhaust, and Big Sucker air cleaner. After 600 miles break-in (no problems) I had it Dyno tuned and they pulled 88.53 H.P. and 103.44 Torque. So far I have not had any of the hot start problems. I have not put very many miles on it since the dyno because of bad weather so maybe the problems will catch up to me. The only thing I can think of is maybe there is a problem with the Calif. version or my tuner caught it with the dyno tune. Best of luck with the problems. I will stay tuned.
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Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
From: SoCal
If nothing else comes out of this at least any future guys who are following this thread and plan to update to the 103" kit now know to have compression releases installed at the same time. Besides that, maybe Harley will amend their install instructions to include mention of compression releases. At least this thread will have accomplished something positive for somebody.
Marc
Marc
I agree with the idea to go for the dyno tune rather than pull the motor apart. That is exactly what I tried to do last week at Laidlaw's who is supposed to be a very reputable dealer. The problem was that they said it couldn't be done with the stock exhaust since the cat is in the header and they can't get the sniffer up far enough. From what I've learned so far is that all of the guys who have the 103" kit and have no problems also have aftermarket exhaust systems and tunes so undoubtedly that takes care of it.
The reason I feel Harley is unfair in this instance is because they are fully aware of the starting problem and that compression releases are the recommended fix but neglected to include that bit of info where the customer could find out about it in advance. All they had to do was to add it to the install instructions packed in the box and it would be a moot point. In the meantime I received an email from Harley requesting copies of my invoices so maybe they will reconsider. I hope so. I am going to call another dealer tomorrow when they're open and see if they can figure out a way to dyno tune it. I heard that they might have a more experienced guy. We'll see.
Marc
The reason I feel Harley is unfair in this instance is because they are fully aware of the starting problem and that compression releases are the recommended fix but neglected to include that bit of info where the customer could find out about it in advance. All they had to do was to add it to the install instructions packed in the box and it would be a moot point. In the meantime I received an email from Harley requesting copies of my invoices so maybe they will reconsider. I hope so. I am going to call another dealer tomorrow when they're open and see if they can figure out a way to dyno tune it. I heard that they might have a more experienced guy. We'll see.
Marc
I hope it works out for you, but I think making a statement that Compression Releases are required and don't get the 103 without them is not necessarily a true statement.
Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
From: New Jersey
I have stock exhausts too. The tune needs to be able to tune uing another method than sniffing the exhaust.
I hope it works out for you, but I think making a statement that Compression Releases are required and don't get the 103 without them is not necessarily a true statement.
I hope it works out for you, but I think making a statement that Compression Releases are required and don't get the 103 without them is not necessarily a true statement.
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Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
From: SoCal
Marc
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Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
From: SoCal
Just a followup. I had Laidlaw's install compression releases last week. The motor now spins over and starts with ease regardless of the temperature. That was the fix for me. If nothing else the starter is much happier 
Marc
Marc