Stage 2 download vs. SERT
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Road Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,018
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From: Front Royal, Virginia
Stage 2 download vs. SERT
BB project should be done by Wednesday. I've been thinking about tuning the new BB with Andrews 26G cam. The SERT looks to run about $700 with dyno tuning. I don't question that that would be the best way to go for maximum power and torque. A download runs $150. Now really, how much more does the SERT offer. I frankly don't want to pay an extra $550 for maybe another 2 -4 horsepower. I've been looking at a lot of sites discussing the SERT and 2 to 4 HP seems about the norm. For sure, there are others claming far more power with the SERT than 2 or 4 but they are in the clear minority. I wanted to know however what others opinions are.
Thanks,
Gary
Thanks,
Gary
Cruiser
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 203
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From: Elgin, IL
RE: Stage 2 download vs. SERT
The HP/$$ ratio of adding a SERT isn't the main justification for the purchase. EPA regs have rendered the stock ecm settings and the downloads TOO LEAN. Some method of correcting this is essential to the performance and longevity of your motor. The SERT isn't something thats installed on the bike, it's software and a connector to interface with your bike's ecm. You select from the included maps the one that matches or most closely matches your setup. There are several less expensive options. Powercommader, DFO etc. but these options all require adding a module to the bike that has the potential of going bad and they still require you to purchase the $150 download so what have you saved. My 103 build ran great on the proper SERT map. After the beak-in on the new motor I opted to dyno and it's even better!
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,519
Likes: 5
From: Slidell, LA
RE: Stage 2 download vs. SERT
I am not sure on this but don't the Harley downloads only address modifications with Harley parts? They still can get close but for after market parts a dyno may be better?
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Road Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,018
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From: Front Royal, Virginia
RE: Stage 2 download vs. SERT
I am certain 100thRK that a dyno tune would be the best thing to do but I think, from what I hear, is they're as many bad tuners as good ones, maybe more. So how do you tell a good tuner from a bad one. And regardless of how good one might be, at some point in modifications there is a point of dimenishing returns on your investment. So I am left to wonder what am I really buying for 6 or $700. If I'm buying 2 or 3 HP, that ain't a good deal. Now If I'm buying a good A/F ratio and thus relability then I'm all for it. I think when the mods are finished, I will monitor the plugs and listen for detonation. If those tow things are good then I probably will pass on the SERT/PCIII.
Gary
Gary
Road Master
Joined: Oct 2005
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From:
RE: Stage 2 download vs. SERT
You will realize just how crappy the HD downloads are, once your bike is tuned with a sert. Go ahead and buy the download... you'll know right away that the bike isn't right, then you'll buy a sert.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2006
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RE: Stage 2 download vs. SERT
Seeing as you are going with an "Other" cam, you HAVE to go with a different fuel management set-up....
SERT or PC III are your only choices.....
Seeing as you have altered the INTERNALS of the motor, your best bet is the SERT.....
You have to change the Pulse Width (Dwell) of the injectors to compensate for the lift, duration and overlap of the different cams....
PC WILL NOT DO THAT!!!!!!
PC will change the enrichment/enleanment of each cylinder, as well as modify the spark curve, but it can't alter the mS timing of the injectors for all of the various loads/alt's/Manifold Press. that the ECM has to compensate for....
SERT or PC III are your only choices.....
Seeing as you have altered the INTERNALS of the motor, your best bet is the SERT.....
You have to change the Pulse Width (Dwell) of the injectors to compensate for the lift, duration and overlap of the different cams....
PC WILL NOT DO THAT!!!!!!
PC will change the enrichment/enleanment of each cylinder, as well as modify the spark curve, but it can't alter the mS timing of the injectors for all of the various loads/alt's/Manifold Press. that the ECM has to compensate for....
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Joined: Oct 2005
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RE: Stage 2 download vs. SERT
The SERT is the way to go, very fine-tuning at all ranges of the throttle. Especially at the range you normally ride. The HD down loads are know to have problems, flat spots in the throttle, ect. The race tuner is the best and can be tuned to any modifications done to the bike. Even if you use after market parts. The HD down load doesn’t even work that well with HD parts only and race tuner can be tuned ever time you do a new modification. You don’t have to keep spending $150.00 on downs loads every time you make a change. The dealer also charges you labor for each down load making it more like $200.00 each time.
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Road Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,043
Likes: 4
From: New Mexico
RE: Stage 2 download vs. SERT
My 2000 95 cc RG has the stage 2 down load .I found this out after it trashed 2 pc111 at the dino shop. the down load has all the proublems you listed. With a sert will remove the down load?.
[IMG]local://upfiles/3159/AD97B0713C4F4E46914C748F6863FA82.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/3159/AD97B0713C4F4E46914C748F6863FA82.jpg[/IMG]
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,537
Likes: 21
RE: Stage 2 download vs. SERT
spirit... is your bike a "Cookie Cutter" 95 Stage II? or is it a bastard build?
That has a lot to do with how the ECM Compensates for the info it recieves as well as transmits.....
Looking, I see a Thunderheader... PC Can compensate for that, but do you have any internal mods?
The Stage II is designed for 95", 203 cams, A/C and Slip-on Muffs.. No more....
If you would have anything different, than that is why it runs like crap.... And a PC can't compensate for cams or heads...
The SERT for the MM system is very similiar to the Delphi... Just a few changes to the screens and how data is manipulated....
Just did one on Wed for a guy... 2k Ultra, 1550 stage I, and he put on a set of Rinehearts... Couldn't figure out why it ran like a pig and couldn't stay running.....
5 runs on the Dyno, balanced out both jugs, and it runs like a Scalded Dawg..... and even starts up like it is supposed to.....
That has a lot to do with how the ECM Compensates for the info it recieves as well as transmits.....
Looking, I see a Thunderheader... PC Can compensate for that, but do you have any internal mods?
The Stage II is designed for 95", 203 cams, A/C and Slip-on Muffs.. No more....
If you would have anything different, than that is why it runs like crap.... And a PC can't compensate for cams or heads...
The SERT for the MM system is very similiar to the Delphi... Just a few changes to the screens and how data is manipulated....
Just did one on Wed for a guy... 2k Ultra, 1550 stage I, and he put on a set of Rinehearts... Couldn't figure out why it ran like a pig and couldn't stay running.....
5 runs on the Dyno, balanced out both jugs, and it runs like a Scalded Dawg..... and even starts up like it is supposed to.....