auto compression releases
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,783
Likes: 10
From: Oh
Thanks for the replies. Smokindave, you can order the stage IV kit from HD or any internet vendor that supplies HD factory parts. It is part number 27517-08A for '08 and later touring bikes. It comes with pistons, jugs, cams, 58mm throttle body, 5.3gps injectors, 110+ heads, perfect fit pushrods, SEST, and a stronger clutch spring. You have to buy the ACR's and harness separately. You also have to buy the SEST cables and software separately. I have the part numbers for that stuff also if you need them. If you go to the MOCO web site and search around enough you can find a link to the SE catalog in PDF form and print it out. It has a lot of stuff that isn't in the SE section of the main catalog, like this kit. Here is the link to the page that lets you download it
http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/C...284!-430247110
as far as the other responses go, I did install the new wiring harness which does have a termination to the ECM, and I did reflash the ECM with a tune that has the ACR function enabled. I think either the ACR's are hanging open or a valve is hanging open. I don't hear anything closing after any length of time with the ignition switched on and there is never any compression after any length of time turning the engine over. I am going to try disconnecting the wiring to see if they close. If that doesn't work I will start looking at the valves. The 110+ heads have huge valves and required some relieving of the rocker bases and covers. I think it is possible the springs re rubbing on the edge of the rocker base. I mostly wanted someone to confirm that the ACR's are normally closed and powered open (which only makes sense, but the MOCO doesn't always do things that make sense). Thanks again for the responses and I will post an update when I have news.
Jack
http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/C...284!-430247110
as far as the other responses go, I did install the new wiring harness which does have a termination to the ECM, and I did reflash the ECM with a tune that has the ACR function enabled. I think either the ACR's are hanging open or a valve is hanging open. I don't hear anything closing after any length of time with the ignition switched on and there is never any compression after any length of time turning the engine over. I am going to try disconnecting the wiring to see if they close. If that doesn't work I will start looking at the valves. The 110+ heads have huge valves and required some relieving of the rocker bases and covers. I think it is possible the springs re rubbing on the edge of the rocker base. I mostly wanted someone to confirm that the ACR's are normally closed and powered open (which only makes sense, but the MOCO doesn't always do things that make sense). Thanks again for the responses and I will post an update when I have news.
Jack
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 218
Likes: 1
From: saginaw michigan
I see in your build info you have perfect fit pushrods, if you installed the intake and exhaust in the wrong spot, it would keep the valves from closing,. The exhaust rods are longer than the intake.
If you are not building compression it is not the fault of the ACR, and yes they are normally closed, and open while the starter is engaged.
If you are not building compression it is not the fault of the ACR, and yes they are normally closed, and open while the starter is engaged.
Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
From: Georgia
Can anyone confirm that a 103" Stage II kit with a 255 Cam does not need CR? Note - already have a race tuner, high flow air filter and upgraded exhaust.
Also, what would the results be if you used the S&S 551 Cam with the rest of the standard 103" Stage II kit? Thought this might be an interesting combination.
Also, what would the results be if you used the S&S 551 Cam with the rest of the standard 103" Stage II kit? Thought this might be an interesting combination.
Road Captain
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 558
Likes: 2
From: Richardson, Tx
Can anyone confirm that a 103" Stage II kit with a 255 Cam does not need CR? Note - already have a race tuner, high flow air filter and upgraded exhaust.
Also, what would the results be if you used the S&S 551 Cam with the rest of the standard 103" Stage II kit? Thought this might be an interesting combination.
Also, what would the results be if you used the S&S 551 Cam with the rest of the standard 103" Stage II kit? Thought this might be an interesting combination.
I returned to the dealer and had the ACR's installed and it works great now.
Retired Admin
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,865
Likes: 9,046
From: Wisconsin
My experience has been the opposite. I had the manual CRs installed when I had the Stage II installed, but I have never used them in 7k miles of riding, even in hot weather out in South Dakota. I think I still would have them installed, but like I said, I haven't used them at all.
One other thing. I had a 103" hot build in my Heritage and it definitely needed the CRs when it was hot. Rode that bike for years and never once burned my fingers pushing them in. You guys must be doing it wrong. I almost always pushed them in before getting on the bike and it only takes a half second on each one. Not enough time to burn your fragile little fingers. Even when I forgot and had to push them in after I got on, I was able to bend over and see them. No burns then either.
One other thing. I had a 103" hot build in my Heritage and it definitely needed the CRs when it was hot. Rode that bike for years and never once burned my fingers pushing them in. You guys must be doing it wrong. I almost always pushed them in before getting on the bike and it only takes a half second on each one. Not enough time to burn your fragile little fingers. Even when I forgot and had to push them in after I got on, I was able to bend over and see them. No burns then either.
Road Master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 875
Likes: 1
From: Rochester, NY
MCR possible option...
I was told that a small percentage of bikes with the 103 stage II end up needing the Manual Compression Release and/or ECR. I was told while they were there it is cheaper then coming back and I felt it can't hurt. Spoke to one of the 09+ touring engineers at HD and he advised it was a good thing to do. I'll go with that.
5th Gear
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta Area
Thanks for the help guys. I got the problem fixed. I used SE roller rockers in my build and had not relieved the rocker box covers enough, therefor the valves were not closing all the way. That usually makes the engine hard to start, doesn't it!
Smokindave, if you are going to use the Stage IV for a build I have a few pointers for you. Send me a pm and I'll share them with you.
Jack
Smokindave, if you are going to use the Stage IV for a build I have a few pointers for you. Send me a pm and I'll share them with you.
Jack
Road Captain
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 501
Likes: 0
From: SW Iowa
One other thing. I had a 103" hot build in my Heritage and it definitely needed the CRs when it was hot. Rode that bike for years and never once burned my fingers pushing them in. You guys must be doing it wrong. I almost always pushed them in before getting on the bike and it only takes a half second on each one. Not enough time to burn your fragile little fingers. Even when I forgot and had to push them in after I got on, I was able to bend over and see them. No burns then either.
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Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
From: Georgia
Thank you all for your insight on the CR question. I went back to my service guys; spoke to the service manager and the two guys that build and tune the bikes at my local HD dealer - all good people about my CR concerns. They were very honest and said that there experience here in GA was that they did not see, recommend or have call backs for the installation of CR when they install the 103" II kit. Going as far as saying if they were needed later, they would split the installation cost (labor). With that being said, I think I like the throught of having the manual CR installed just in case. After all, if anyone else licks my bike, I have bigger issues!
As for the S&S 551 Cam - dealer had no feedback + or -. Did say you can't go wrong with the 255 for that overall low end TQ bump.
My bike is scheduled for surgery late December, hope all goes well.
As for the S&S 551 Cam - dealer had no feedback + or -. Did say you can't go wrong with the 255 for that overall low end TQ bump.
My bike is scheduled for surgery late December, hope all goes well.
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 218
Likes: 1
From: saginaw michigan
update
I went with the manuel CRs because of the extra cost of the ACRs and my local dealer did not have the fixtures to drill/tap for the ACRs. I also installed the SE compensator and used a .030 cometic gasket. The engine is together just waiting for dry roads and 40 or higher temps to break it in. I have fired it up to check for oil leaks or odd noises, no leaks and sounds good. No good weather in site-bummer.
Thanks for all the input.
Thanks for all the input.
Last edited by chasswartz; Dec 26, 2009 at 10:49 AM. Reason: added thanks