103 Stage II Tune Question ??
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2009
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From: Illinois
Ultraclassic, what's with all the "hating"? Did I say something to offend you? I was simply stating my opinion, and wasn't intending to **** anybody off. I've got my opinions, you've got yours', and that's all there is to it. Go ahead and love your SE's if you want, but if I don't want them what's the problem with that?
And on the cam only vs. 103 kits, you're right. But a cam only engine vs. MANY of the standard "cookie cutter" 103 kits that a lot of guys get at the Harley shop don't outperform the cam only models with a good tune.
And on the cam only vs. 103 kits, you're right. But a cam only engine vs. MANY of the standard "cookie cutter" 103 kits that a lot of guys get at the Harley shop don't outperform the cam only models with a good tune.
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i never said i disliked se parts or cams all i ment my tuner rc cycles in hayward calif. told ME 255s wouldndt work as well as the 259e hes have done some bike with this combo and said its works very well and pulls hard. i dont want to **** any one off sorry if i did . i know this cam is new and no one really knows about from what i have read on this forum. but my tuner had nothing but good to say about this cam and i also had a master tune put in my bike. any way sorry if i pissed anyone off i was just stating my 2 cents. later
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Joined: Dec 2006
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From: Po-Dunk Looziana
I apologize for coming across a little pointed in my reply. There is, at times, some misinformation regarding certain builds soley on the basis of SE parts. SE parts to alot of forum members are their only option alot of times for various reasons. As stated, there are other well put together "kits" that perform extremely well but this thread was not an inquiry of such.
Last edited by UltraKla$$ic; Dec 12, 2009 at 09:13 PM.
I was hoping that someone would answer the OP question, as I amalso struggling with the same issue. I am going to install a set of 255's in my bike this winter. (the cams are already in my toolbox). The choice I have is to either spend 175 or so on a stage II download, or go to either a PC or TTS. I really don't think I'm going to be doing anything more to the motor after this, so on one hand it makes sense to save the extra 200 bucks or so and just do the download. On the other hand, the real cost of the tts would be reduced by 175 or so, so if I'm going to be going that route, now would be the time.
Of course, there's dyno time on top of all that if I go to a PC or tts.
Of course, there's dyno time on top of all that if I go to a PC or tts.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2009
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Is a dyno tune required OR just desired?
As a tuner I can confidently state that canned downloads and maps are OK for exact builds the mapping for...including intake, injector outputs, porting, compression, and exhaust systems/mufflers.
Since no 2 injector outputs are the same, just that variable alone will affect power and drivability results.
IMO, you must find a good tuner that guarantees his tunes to the point of your satisfaction. In other words if the tune is not perfect he will readjust till it is.....at no additional charge.
If the only tuner you can find charges by the hour or will not guarantee his work, simply don't do business with him.
I like the SE255 cam profile, but you must understand I do not personally care about power above 4500 rpms because I do not ride up there as a rule. That said, if the dyno sheet is the main consideration (peak numbers), the SE255 is not the best selection.
We have done, as previously stated, a couple SE259e builds with good results....not sure how much better than SE255 under 4500rpms though.
Addressing the "I'd never use SE cams" statement from a previous poster: These cams are made to be as powerful as possible without increasing valve train noises. For this reason there are more agressive cam profiles that produce better power, but at the cost of increased valvetrain noises.
I realize there are exceptions to every rule, and, as an example, there are owners who say their TW6h woods cams are as quiet as stockers, but we have not experienced that ourselves. We have found the quicker the valves open and close the more noise they cause....some more than others.
Hoping this is taken in the spirit in which it is intended,
Bob
Since no 2 injector outputs are the same, just that variable alone will affect power and drivability results.
IMO, you must find a good tuner that guarantees his tunes to the point of your satisfaction. In other words if the tune is not perfect he will readjust till it is.....at no additional charge.
If the only tuner you can find charges by the hour or will not guarantee his work, simply don't do business with him.
I like the SE255 cam profile, but you must understand I do not personally care about power above 4500 rpms because I do not ride up there as a rule. That said, if the dyno sheet is the main consideration (peak numbers), the SE255 is not the best selection.
We have done, as previously stated, a couple SE259e builds with good results....not sure how much better than SE255 under 4500rpms though.
Addressing the "I'd never use SE cams" statement from a previous poster: These cams are made to be as powerful as possible without increasing valve train noises. For this reason there are more agressive cam profiles that produce better power, but at the cost of increased valvetrain noises.
I realize there are exceptions to every rule, and, as an example, there are owners who say their TW6h woods cams are as quiet as stockers, but we have not experienced that ourselves. We have found the quicker the valves open and close the more noise they cause....some more than others.
Hoping this is taken in the spirit in which it is intended,
Bob
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